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Natalie Tysdal

Susie, thank you for taking the time. I know you spend a lot of time behind the microphone and I'm so encouraged and I'm excited about your new book and the way God's moving through you to other people.

Susie Larson

What an honor to meet you. Just our short conversation before the show, I've got a new friend. I love how God is using you, and it excites me to no end because he's on the move everywhere.

Natalie Tysdal

Well, you know, I didn't tell you this. I spent almost 30 years in the news business where I wasn't allowed to talk about my faith. And it was just a place that I knew God put me where I could work in a way that I felt like I was doing God's work. But it became apparent to me in the end of my career that that's not where I was supposed to be anymore, even though I had invested so much time there. And so you were telling me as we got started how you're seeing God move people in different places. And I never thought of it that way. I just ended up here podcasting and teaching, but let's start off talking about that and how God can completely take us out of one world and put us into a different one and how that's very strategic.

Susie Larson

see him doing that I told you before the show I would say in the last five seven years especially and really a lot in the last few years where he's calling pastors out of retirement and a lot asking them to be interim pastors because maybe that pastor fell morally or something happened a lot of pastors are quitting he's calling people out of corporate into ministry some in ministry into corporate I mean he's strategically positioning his saints for such a time as this and it is

Susie Larson

because we have this aversion to dependence. We wanna get the plan and we wanna establish our steps, but it's the Lord. We may make our plan, but the Lord establishes our steps. And I think when we just, our love for control and our love for, tell me where I'm going, tell me what I can do so I can kind of take it from there. We start in the spirit, but we maybe sometimes wanna finish in the flesh. I think our dependence, my husband would say, is our superpower.

Susie Larson

And I think it's super important for every believer in this day, especially in this day, to be cultivating such intimacy with God, such a dependence on God, because just because God may have called you, let's say, to be a nurse or a teacher, you know, 10, 15 years ago, it doesn't mean he's still asking you to do that today. Like in your instance, I mean, you were in the public sphere and news. Well, God bless that. And who knows how he used that. And you'll see in eternity.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah.

Susie Larson

really the fruit of just your obedience of people who've watched you while you were walking out that industry in obedience, but you were sensitive enough to the spirit that the winds of change started to blow. And I think that's one of the things you start to notice is maybe a little restlessness, then there's a little lifting of the grace, right? And excuse me, I would say there's often a window of time when God's inviting us to step out and step into the next thing.

And there's a window of time and there's a lot of grace around it. And you start to notice things. You feel the winds of change. There's confirmations that come. And if there's, if you're so set in your ways and so averse to change and risk and those kinds of things, if you wait too long and that window closes, I'm not saying, obviously you don't lose your salvation, you don't lose his love, but I would say you lose some of your influence.

And I would say burnout so often happens after that because the grace isn't there anymore. And then you're trying to crank it out in your own strength. And I have seen saints walk through burnout, disillusionment, disorientation, and then they blame God for it. But when they retrace their steps, they can say, if I'm honest, he was lifting the grace some time ago. And I think one of the ways you know if you're supposed to go, or at least get ready to go, is if in your flesh,

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah.

Susie Larson

you want to stay, like I don't want to take risks. And one of the ways you know you're supposed to stay is if your only reason for going is I want relief. I want to get out of here. I don't like these people anymore, right? But if there's a sense like I just want to peel the bandaid off and I want to preempt something and make something happen, then it takes more faith to stay. So I think all of us really need to be on high alert and dependence on God because He is moving people around and the people.

Susie Larson

Natalie that I'm talking to behind the scenes before we go on live, I'm a talk radio host, will tell you, they'll say, these are the best of times and the worst of times. Like I'm more fulfilled than I've ever been, they're saying. Yes, these are trying times, but I am on the edge of something with God that I never would have experienced if I wouldn't have trusted Him and stepped out. So these are really powerful times to be alive. And I just pray we're all leaning in and we're listening.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, well, that's one of the things in your new book that I want to talk about. I'm really excited to dive into it. Usually I would try to do that before the interview, but there's so much we can talk about leading into the book. So I'm going to read the full thing later. But in this new book, you talk about hearing the voice of God and that he's closer than your next breath, the title of the book. When we're talking about what you just mentioned,

Natalie Tysdal

Sometimes it's hard to know is that me? How do I know it's God telling me to do that?

Susie Larson

Well, my hubby and I, when we're mentoring young people, always say wisdom's path is peace. You know, wisdom's path is peace, the peace of God. You follow the Prince of Peace. Scripture even says to let peace rule and reign in your heart. And what that means, rule and reign, it translates umpire. So if you're in sports, like if you're watching football, and let's say someone's got the ball and they're running and they step out of bounds, the whistle blows, they're out of bounds. And when the peace goes, you're out of bounds.

And I think it's just so important to be paying attention when the peace lifts, when there's a check in your spirit. And it is easy to manipulate your faith to match your life. Excuse me, I've got a little, I'm not sure what that's all about. But I think that again, we can presume upon God. And sometimes you'll meet people who talk in a way that, like they're the corner on the truth and that they always hear God without fail.

Susie Larson

And I want to say daily the heavens pour forth speech. And I enjoy great intimacy with God. But anybody that I've ever talked to over the years in radio and just in my journey with God, every single person that I know that's really serious about their walk with God walks through a silent season, if not multiple seasons like that, where it's not so clear, where he seems like the heavens have shut up, you know? It seems like the word feels dead on the page. And you still love God but he's silent. And so what do you do during such seasons? I did write a lot about that in the book. And I would say for me, what I always do when I'm in such a season is I search my own heart first. I pray Psalm 139. Search me, oh God, know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, point out anything in me that offends you and lead me in your everlasting way. And it's not to say every problem that you have is your fault and every silent season is your fault, but it is to say

Susie Larson

our capacity for self-deception is high. Where we don't always know what we don't know, we can't always see what we can't see. That's why Paul said, my conscience is clear. Doesn't mean I'm innocent. David said, cleanse me from hidden faults, keep me back from presumptuous sins. So when I'm either in a spiritual battle, I write a lot about that in my book, Strong in Battle, or I'm in a silent season, which I write about in this one, is I start with me first. God, is there something I'm not seeing? Is there a reason that you seem quiet?

And my friend Maria says it this way, when you're not hearing from God, first seek him about you. And if he shows you something, repent and then roar. If he doesn't show you anything, just roar. Remember who you are. So if you have searched your heart and you're not in disobedience, you're not harboring a grudge, you're not living a duplicit life, because this is the stuff, we drift Natalie, we don't even realize it. When we search our hearts and we're like waiting for God for a breakthrough over here.

Susie Larson

And he wants to talk to us about this thing over here going, you know what, you still haven't forgiven that person. Or you know, you really undermined authority when you picked him apart in front of all those people. Those are things that are issues. And those are things that we need to bring under the blood. So when the Lord shows you what you need and you repent and you roar, do it. But if there's not a thing that he's showing you and you are a sincere follower of Christ and you are following him and he still seems quiet, I say keep walking.

keep believing. If you can't hear what he's saying, then remember what he said. I mean, his word is living and active. I think it's powerful to keep a journal because there's so often if the Lord is saying something to me, I will write it down. I go back to those journals and remember what he said. I remember in the darkness what he said in the light. And if you just keep walking, if you keep believing, if you can really trust, this is a test of your faith. You know, God doesn't tempt us, but he does test us.

Susie Larson

And it means he's forging something in you that's necessary for your next place of promise. And so you can fail the test by getting an attitude or numbing out or doing whatever you can to go, I'm tapping out, I'm mad at God, I don't like this test. Or you can lean in to say, God, you are preparing me for something that I can't see yet. Your ways are higher than mine. So even though I love the emotional sense of your presence, I love it when you whisper in my ear, you're still the same God.

Susie Larson

And if I could give one more piece of advice for that person walking through the silent season, if you're walking through a silent season and you can't hear them and you can't sense them, if you literally could peel back the sky and see into the spiritual realm, you would see a father singing over you. You would see him singing love songs over you. You would see him smiling over you with a smile that goes up to his eyes. You would see him pointing to warring angels who he's mobilizing on your behalf because of prayers you prayed some time ago.

There is activity in the heavenly realm because you are present and living and breathing on the earth today. So just because you happen to go through a short term season that's silent, it doesn't mean anything that God has changed. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, beautiful. You know, I spent so long in a public life that I wasn't speaking of my faith. And now in this new life and this podcast that has taken a real turn from being I was a health reporter and education reporter, and it's taken this beautiful turn, that is I still talk about health issues. I talk about family topics and I talk about faith. And I'm so passionate about it, but I know I still have a lot of listeners, Suzy, that...

who followed me in my news days who were like, I'm there for the health stuff, but this faith stuff maybe I'm not sure yet. And that's for me, like when I say, just listen. And like you say, just listen. Look at what's happening in our world and just listen. And your health and all of these things will be better when you're actually listening to that quiet voice that you haven't learned to listen to yet.

Susie Larson

I'm equally as passionate about health. I don't know if you know my backstory, but I actually was a, I worked in the fitness industry for 12 years. I was certified fitness professional. I trained instructors. I taught classes. I managed group fitness departments, and I battled a chronic illness. So I'm profoundly passionate about health. In fact, I covered on my show, I have a functional med doc on my show. He's one of my doctors, but on my show once a month, and we take listener questions all the time. Just...

Natalie Tysdal

Yes.

Susie Larson

to provide maybe a bigger picture of preventative health and functional medicine and those things. So I am so passionate about this topic. And I think if you are listening and you're passionate about health and you love Natalie, but you don't know God, I just wanna say he loves you. He believes in you. And you will come to the fullness of who you are when you understand he's the one who created you. He masterfully created you. And if you've never opened up the Bible,

I would say go to Psalm 139 and read it because it'll talk about you. It'll say that you were knit together in your mother's womb, that you're fearfully and wonderfully made. And the psalmist said, my soul knows it so well. And when you don't know God or don't believe in God, your soul doesn't know it so well, but God crafted you in his image. And I've heard speakers say this, and I opened this in the book. I don't think I opened, it's in the book in the beginning somewhere, but what I've heard speakers say, God doesn't care where you work or what you eat, just do those things as unto him. And I never like call out speakers, I would never do that. But in this situation, I'm not naming names, I'm just saying I fully disagree. Because especially in Psalm 139, it's like every thought that he has, his thoughts towards you outnumber the grains of sand and every thought is holy. He knows what you're gonna say before you say it. He knows when you rise up and when you sit down. One of my favorite verses in Psalm 139 is verse five. You both proceed.

and follow me, you put your hand of blessing upon my head. If that doesn't speak of a father who's so taken with you, I just pray that you would just be open to the idea that your creator knows you best and loves you most, and he has some things he wants to say to you. And I think as you come into the fullness of your identity in him, you will know a freedom and a health that you've never otherwise experienced.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, I agree. And I encourage people, I'm going to go back and I've read before, I'm going to go back and read all of 139 now in Psalms, because I've heard you speak of it before and it is so beautiful. So much of Psalms, of course, is. What about, I want to go back to, so you've written many books that your most recent one published this last summer, right? Why did you write this book? And then you can tell us a little bit more about the others, but where did it come from?

Susie Larson

Boy, that's a great question. So I was on a call with the publishing team at Thomas Nelson and they were, you know, meeting, wanting, oops, wanting to work with me. And they were just talking about a future relationship and they did, you know, there was no talk of any future book ideas. And they said, do you have thoughts swirling around in your head? Now keep in mind, I had come through a stretch. So.

I contracted Lyme disease three decades ago and was very, very sick for the first seven years. And for about 20 years, I just found a way to manage it. I was a fitness instructor. I never felt great, but I'm a fighter and I had things I wanted to do and I wasn't gonna get my identity from illness. But I would say four to five times a year, I couldn't get out of bed. As soon as my face went numb, I knew I was in trouble and then I would get blindsided by neurological symptoms and inflammation and fatigue.

and then I'd come up swinging every time, you know, like the bop bag, my dad always says, you're like the bop bag, you get smacked, you fall down, I cry, and then I come up and I'm swinging. But it's just sort of how I did it for 20 years. I never felt great, but I showed up in life and then I would get knocked down a handful of times this year. And then about eight, nine years ago, I suffered a serious relapse and apparently people with chronic Lyme have a deficiency to process mold and I had repeated, unknowing exposures to black mold that affected my brain. So an MRI showed my brain full of mold, which was affecting me cognitively. And I was at that time writing books and I forgot how to spell very basic words like the difference between T-H-E-R-E and E-I-R there and there. I couldn't remember. I had to Google. I mean, how terrifying. I mean, on live radio, my tongue is going numb and I couldn't remember the words I needed in my sentences. It was terrifying.

Susie Larson

So that was a brutal battle. So at this point when they were meeting with me, I was several years in and getting the upper hand, but still, I mean, people who have chronic illness, especially when it's surges of unpredictable symptoms that are really scary, it's emotionally traumatizing. It just is. So it's not just physical, it's hard. And I was emotionally battered, physically battered and exhausted. So even the timing of that meeting, I mean, I feel like

Susie Larson

I thought after the call, if I was in my right mind, I'd say, it's not a good time. But it was the time when we felt the peace of God. And Kevin and I just put a lot of priority on the peace. And so I'm sitting there in no shape to write another book at that point. They were inquiring about a future relationship. And they said, is there any idea swirling in your mind? And I said, well, I love the presence of God. And I'd like to write something about that sometimes we chase the sensational and miss the supernatural. And they said, we want that book.

Susie Larson

I'm like, okay. And when it came time to write, I was in the silent season. I physically was just not doing well, not feeling well, so much inflammation, so much numbing and exhausted. And the Lord whispered to my heart, write what you know to be true, even when it doesn't feel true. So I wrote that book, not feeling like those things were true, but knowing that they were true. And it ministered to my heart as I'm like, what would you say to someone?

who's in a season like this. And I'm like, I have a history with God. I do know these things to be true. And so, sorry, when that book arrived on my doorstep, I had come through the worst part of it and I was starting to get my spring back on my step. I couldn't believe the mercy of God because there was a point in the beginning of the writing and I only admitted this the first time on another interview and I'm like, my publisher doesn't even know this, but they're gonna hear it, but I literally thought about giving the contract back. I was weeping, going, I can't do this, honey. I can't, I'm exhausted and I'm battered and I need counseling because I'm so sad that this has done, you know, this disease just frustrates me so bad. And my husband, he does this thing, he stood his arms and legs right, he's like, you're not giving that contract back. The Lord led us this far, he's gonna lead you through. You're gonna keep on. I'm so grateful for that because when I...

Susie Larson

got to be on the other side. I got to participate in a miracle that he in my bumbling, exhausted body somehow some way. I had some nuggets of truth that I had acquired and they had proven true and even Natalie when I handed the manuscript in I'm like I hope this is good. I didn't have a right perspective even because I was so tired but the Lord and his faithfulness did something with it and what we're hearing from people, they're like, this is a healing balm to my heart. And I just think that is the efficiency of the kingdom. It's not the perfection of your offering, it's your availability and willingness to make an offering. It's God who multiplies the seed. It's God who redeems the message. And I'm surprised, I'm sorry, I'm surprised at my tears, but I'm amazed that he would let me partner with him. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal

It's okay. I'm a crier too, so we can cry together. It's okay. And I appreciate your vulnerability.

Susie Larson

Yeah. That he would let us partner with him. And I pray that encourages someone listening today because our temptation, again, our love of control and our aversion to dependence, we preempt and we self-sabotage. But if the peace of God is inviting you to it, the grace of God will see you through it. I'm telling you, it's just true. So trust him in that.

Natalie Tysdal

You know, I appreciate that story so much because it's in the hardest things that we do where God is often calling us. And we just so much in our flesh want to go, no, it's too hard. And to really be able to listen, that's the beauty. And I think it's hard for newer Christians too to say, I don't know if that's the voice of God. What is the voice of God? Am I feeling it? Am I actually hearing it?

Natalie Tysdal

Where's it coming from?

Susie Larson

And if you don't know the Word of God, you won't know the voice of God. That's where I say you'll manipulate the faith to match your life. If you're just constructing a God in your image, never reading the Word, you may hear him say, get the Corvette even though you have no money. Really, I want you to have it. You know what I mean? Yes, that's right. That's right. And an enemy has had your whole life to study you and he can come as an angel of light and he can deceive. And so you've got to know the Word so you know what his voice sounds like.

And it is always accompanied by peace. And I would say so often when the Lord breaks through in our stories, he's addressing issues of lordship, of identity, of a need for upgrade in faith. It's not always warm fuzzy. I mean, it is sometimes where he's like, you're my beloved daughter in whom I'm well pleased. If you need to hear that, he breathes that on you. But there are other times when the Lord speaks, it will surprise you.

Because you might be heading one way, and he's like, actually, we're going this way, or you might have a thought, leaning on your own understanding, and he's like, here's a higher way to think about that. Here's a better way to tell that story. And that's what I just treasure his voice so much, because it's so much more brilliant than our own voice. And if you're new in the faith, I will tell you, in my early years as a mom, and had three little boys and this Lyme disease, and we were going completely broke because of all the medical debt.

Susie Larson

And my friends had health and wealth and I had neither. And I could not figure out why I was a have not. I mean, I searched my heart and like, is there anything I've done so that, you know, because people do that, you know, they have this A plus B equals C faith and they're the ones that always find you and say, well, you must've missed a step or maybe you're hiding sin. And I mean, so I'm like, show me God if I'm missing anything because it was a hard, hard existence. But I remember in streams in the desert, and old devotional and it's so great for people who are suffering. It's been years since I've picked it up, but there was a story in there. And I think I tell it in this book, Closer Than Your Next Breath, where there were three women, there was a woman who had a dream. And in the dream, she's standing with an angel. And there are three women kneeling before Jesus. And the angel says to her, watch what Jesus does and tell me what you see.

So the first one, Jesus walks up and she's kneeling down with her head bowed and he lifts her chin and he rustles her hair and he speaks tenderly and holds her face in his hands. And the second one, he doesn't do that, but he rustles her hair. And the third one, he looks away and walks away. And the woman says, well, the first one is all in and God is just, Jesus is affirming the way that she walks with God. The second one is one foot in and one foot out and so he's just affirming the things that, basically her redemptive choices. And the third one is squandering her life and God is disappointed.

And the angel said, you couldn't be more wrong. The first one's a brand new believer and is relying heavily on confirmations and affirmations and emotional connections. And so he's wooing and nurturing her in the beginning stages of her faith. The second one is maturing and he's weaning her off of always needing to feel the ooey, zagoey, the fuzzies and weaning her off of that so that she can learn to trust him when it doesn't suit her. And the third one is being trained for greatness.

Susie Larson

And I remember as a young believer reading that going, you know, and I shortly had, Rafter had read Psalm 18. And to me, that's another, that's one of my go-to Psalms because it's, it just speaks of my life script. And it talks about that the enemy confronted me at a moment when I was weakest, you know, I cried out to the Lord and my cry reached his ears. And then it shows the anger of God when his children are oppressed. You see this fierceness of God coming down, punching a hole through the sky, reaching out from on high, getting ahold of us, rescuing us because he delights in us. So first he takes us out of the claws and the jaws of the enemy, sets us in a spacious place. And then you watch this progression. He heals you, he restores you, and then he strengthens your arms to bend a bow of bronze. He trains your hands for battle so that you can be skilled with the bow. And it says, and he makes my feet walk on high places like the feet of a deer.

And what that speaks of Natalie is spiritual agility. Because high places for deer, they're on uneven terrain, but they're not losing their footing. And again, as a former fitness person, agility was always a super interesting training concept because it's like the energy that you use when you're deking right, going left, if you're running and then you stop to suddenly change directions, requires an energy system that you have to actually operate in to be able to get good at, like what you would see in football or volleyball. You have to train that way so your body can

Susie Larson

your threshold can go up. And so your agility changes when you train in that way. Well, all of our trials train us to have spiritual agility. And so once you've been rescued and you were a victim, he's training you to be a victor. And so suddenly now, you don't have to have all of your circumstances perfect for you to fight your one battle. You can have arrows coming at you from every which way, stand on uneven terrain and still keep your footing. That's what opposition does to you when you trust God in the middle of your battle.

So I love that psalm so very much. And I just think that is what God does. He trains us and changes us from victim to victor. And that's what he wants to do with all of us.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's so important that being in the Word every day and you like you just said that's our agility. That's our, yep, we've got it because we have the power of the Word. And I see that more and more, you know, I'm teaching in a high school and I see that more in our community now of Christians who would never want to condemn people who have chosen Jesus, but to do that and not have the Word.

Natalie Tysdal

is it's not going to give you that power that you're talking about, that agility.

Susie Larson

No. Yeah, they won't be able to stand in battle and they won't know what's truth because the enemy is a brilliant deceiver. And so we do need discernment and God does offer us that discernment. But again, that's something that's cultivated by being in the Word, by telling yourself the right story, right? A redemptive story, framing your story in a way that's redemptive when you're facing battles. Because you never mature if you're constantly mad at God when you're allowed to suffer. He made no such promise.

Susie Larson

that we wouldn't suffer. So a trouble-free life, if that's your goal, you'll be perpetually disappointed. He said, in this world, you will have trouble. But he said, actually be of good cheer because I've overcome the world, which means you're gonna overcome as well.

Natalie Tysdal

You told a story that you've just reminded me of, of the two tables. And I know it's probably one of the speeches that you give when you talk to people and it's the beautiful royal table. And how, explain that because I don't wanna try to, you do it so beautifully.

Susie Larson

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's out of my book, Your Powerful Prayers, but it is one of my favorite messages to give. So I have an orphan table and an air table on the stage. And the orphan table is basically like a card table with a broken chipped plate and that stale piece of bread. And the air table, as you said, is royal. It's linen, it's candelabra, it's fruit, it's bread. And I talk about that, you know, so often we more easily see ourselves at the air table when we're performing well. And we see ourselves at the orphan table when we're falling down.

But these are spiritual statuses. And when you, before Christ, you were dead in your sin, you were lost in your sin. When you trusted Jesus for salvation, He literally transferred you out of the kingdom of darkness and to the kingdom of his your son. So there's literally a spiritual chasm between these tables. So we vacillate in the mindset of we have an air mentality and an orphan mentality. But once you are in Christ Jesus, that chasm exists, your spiritual eternity is that your identity is secure and your eternity is secure. And those are Jesus. Your choices matter, how you steward your life matters, but Jesus won those two things. And often it's like, if you can more easily picture yourself at the air table when you're performing right, that's what the devil wants. Because then when you fall down, he'll have you sit at that orphan table and say, sit there and think about what you've done. And that's what we do. And what does it do? It makes us more self-aware and less God-aware.

And so oftentimes when I'm telling that story, I'll sit at the orphan table. And so what does this net in you? What kind of fruit comes out of you rehearsing and rehashing all the ways you fell down? It's not to say you ignore it or deny it, but you bring it under the blood. When the enemy's saying, sit there and think about what you've done, you picture Jesus standing up going, no, no. Don't sit there and think about what you've done. Sit here and think about what I've done. And when you ponder the love, the righteousness, I mean, the goodness of God.

Susie Larson

It keeps you perpetually in awe of the mercy and the grace of God. So if we could truly see ourselves for who we are because of who Jesus is, I always say you would never have another insecure day ever because in Ephesians we're seated with Christ. You can't be more secure than seated in the heavenlies with Christ. So we may feel insecure, but those are things that we have to wrestle to the ground because they're lies. You know, it doesn't mean you don't have frailties and weaknesses and character inconsistencies that you need to overcome.

Natalie Tysdal

Absolutely.

Susie Larson

But the Spirit of God is the one who does that in you as you walk through life. You can trust him to transform you, but your identity is set and secure, and it's not up for grabs. And he doesn't yank you from your place at the table just because you forget who you are. These things are so important that we remember these things. But I don't know that we ever mature unless we're willing to trust God in our battles, willing to always believe that he is good in the hard times. Because once we come through those places, we're richer.

Susie Larson

than we were before. I mean, my son was miraculously healed from a serious back injury, a medical miracle. Like he was 17, took a late hit in football, blew the discs out in his back, exploded the disc, and it was pressing on three sets of nerves, and they were saying he was about to lose control of his bowels at 17 years old. And it was a serious injury, and we tried everything. Epidural injections, tractions, body brace, and he was just shriveling. And

It's too long of a story, but it's an amazing one. But he, at youth group one night, a student laid hands on his back, healed. Miraculous, he was running sprints with the team. The next day, doctors are like, there's no explanation. Well, my journey hasn't been that way. Mine's been a longer journey. And I still believe we serve a God who heals. And I would say I had so much trauma baked in to my story. I had some childhood trauma at the hands of teenage boys.

that when the sickness happened, it all mangled together. So if God would have healed me instantly, I would have still had an infrastructure for sickness. And so my journey and story is no less miraculous to me because of what I've had to contend for, the promises and the sense of my identity when I can't always produce what I want. I know Him more.

I know the enemy and his schemes more. I know God's word more. And so this battle has not been lost on me. God knows what he's doing with his children and we can trust him. We can trust him.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah, yeah. Well, your testimony is so strong and your words, I mean, are so beautiful, the way you draw from the word. And I want to just end with, I wish we had more time and we'll just have to do it again. But I want to end with the power of testimony because I struggled with this. And I think sometimes people think, well, I've got this relationship with Jesus, I'm good. And yet I've been drawn recently to revelations and, you know,

that we silence Satan by the power of the blood and our testimony. And I think sometimes we're scared, as I was in this business where I really wasn't allowed to talk about my faith, to share our testimony. And yet the power of that, obviously you've shown that. I'm coming out in that in such a way because I feel it. And I know that's what I'm being called to, but I think there are a lot of people who are afraid to share their testimony or afraid of persecution.

Susie Larson

Mm-hmm. That's true. And you know, it's so interesting, my last two events, really awesome, amazing women's conferences when I presented the gospel, I said normally in church, if you're new, because these were conferences where lots of people brought friends, and I said normally in churches and conferences at this point, we have everybody close their eyes and bow their heads to respect your privacy. But I said, you know, the days are getting darker.

And if you wanna follow Jesus, it's gonna require some boldness from you. So I'm not gonna call you out and embarrass you, but I am going to say with heads back and eyes wide open, who wants to trust Jesus? Who wants to know their eternity is secure? Wants to follow Jesus all the days of their life. Women just shot up, like they did not, and the crescendo of like screams and whoops from women, like, huh, because they got to see this, you know, all these women just going, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I think sometimes when we dumb things down and water things down so much,

Susie Larson

we are kicking the legs right out from the power of the gospel. Because something gets activated in you when you tell your story. And it's not a one size fits all thing. It's like the way that you're doing it, Natalie, with teaching even students how to tell their story, the way I'm doing it, it's different. And I think there are times when maybe someone has an encounter with God, and so they make a rule about it, like everybody should evangelize this way. Like you're not really a legitimate Christian unless you're on the street corner.

with a sign, you know, John 3 16. And but that's just not true. That the word of your testimony, maybe you take a portion of your story because scripture says, has God been good? Well, then tell others. Psalm 145 says, let his praise be on every tongue. You let your people give specific examples of your power and your majesty and your deeds. If God's been faithful to you, pick a portion of your story and say, Lord, bring me one person today because

they are gonna need what God has imparted to you. And the more that you use it, it's like a muscle. You use it or lose it as far as the power of your testimony, right? When you start to just share out of your story, people can't really dispute your story. Something in you gets activated. And so I don't want it to be put on you that it needs to look like everybody else, but I would say fill your space and run your race. Because the enemy.

Susie Larson

is threatening your exposure, like people are going to reject you. Well, they might. Well, you know, you'll live. You'll live. He's afraid of exposure is exactly what's happening here. When he threatens and intimidates, it's because he fears exposure. So when you just start to sweetly share what God has done and the most, people are so spiritually hungry right now. You know, you'd be amazed at how desperate people are for hope. And how are they going to know about the hope within you if they don't see hope on you?

Susie Larson

So if you're a baby Christian, but you're dealing with tons of fear, tons of anxiety, tons of insecurity, I would say go after that stuff. Wrestle it to the ground. Get a counselor or spiritual director. There's no condemnation, no shame. The enemy knows his time is short and he's going after your stuff. But I'm saying that this is not an equal fight. Greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. And that's why I am also so passionate about

Susie Larson

health and inner healing is because as you start to get healed from the inside, from the traumas you've endured, there's no demon in hell that can stop you from living out your true identity in Christ. When you start to go, I was lost, but now I'm found. I used to be so fearful and now I have faith. You'll just be so in awe that people are going to go, how are you smiling in this day? How are you serving so joyfully? People are going to start asking you about it.

Susie Larson

But I think that if you don't deal with your stuff that you've been stuffing in the basement, your testimony won't rank true because has he really set you free? Your eternity might be secure and that's amazing, but has he really set you free? If you can say, no, I'm not free, then no shame, but go after your freedom, get free, because then you're gonna have a story to tell.

Natalie Tysdal

Absolutely. You're so right. Oh, I love listening to you and I love your message. And I'm really excited about this book, this newer book, amidst the many others that you had. Thank you for taking the time with me today. I hope we can do it again soon.

Susie Larson

Well, you're an instant friend, Natalie. I just love you and I'm super inspired how God is using you. And I just pray he continues to surprise you with his goodness.

Natalie Tysdal

Thank you. And I'm gonna send people to your website. I'll put it in the show notes. If you wanna say it, tell us what it is. Easy to remember. Yeah, Suzy, thank you.

Susie Larson (36:07.438)

Sure. SuzyLarson.com. Thank you.