View Transcript of the show:

Natalie Tysdal 

Jodi, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today.

Jodie Niznik

It's so good to be with you, Natalie.

Natalie Tysdal 

And I learned doing my research that you're from my neck of the woods. And at one time in your life, you thought you were going to also be in the news business.

Jodie Niznik

It's true. I did think that that is what I was going to do with my life, but God had other plans. He did.

Natalie Tysdal 

God had a different plan though. And I told you before we started, oh, Jody, he protected you from a really toxic industry, but you're still able to change people's lives, tell stories, do the things that I did for many years, but in a much more positive environment.

Jodie Niznik 

Yeah, I love what the Lord has allowed me to do. I was a pastor for many years, and He's led me into a new season about the same time that He led you into a new season, which is interesting. COVID did that to a lot of people and just made us really reevaluate how we're spending our time and what really matters to us and what we want to do with our lives. And so, He's led me into guiding people into finding peace and remembering that God is with them no matter what they're going through. And so that's kind of been my mission over the last few years.

Natalie Tysdal 

Well, I stumbled upon you and I've been following your Instagram page and your podcast and so peaceful. I love what you're doing. So what I want to dive into today is this idea of how to mix meditation with the Bible. And so often we hear meditation and yoga and all of these things. Are they godly? So,

Tell us how you're doing that and what that looks like.

Jodie Niznik 

Yeah. So I think the first thing I want to say about that is meditation was God's idea all along. And it's actually seen as early as Genesis chapter 24. There's this little incident where Isaac is meditating. But we see it all through scripture. We see it in the Psalms. We see it in the New Testament. And so I firmly believe that God created meditation and he actually designed us to meditate. Now, that word meditation actually has a lot of baggage that goes with it because there's Eastern meditation, there's mindfulness meditation, there's meditation through yoga, which is connecting your body and your mind. And I think some of meditation has gotten a little skewed. So we'll just take Eastern meditation, for example. And again, this is a broad categorization of Eastern meditation, so people could probably pick this apart. But one of the main roles of Eastern meditation is to actually empty your mind, to become empty as a way to find peace and stillness in your life. And Christian meditation is actually very different from that. It's actually filling our mind. It's filling our mind with the things of God as a way to recenter ourselves, as a way to find peace and stillness in the midst of you

Jodie Niznik 

What we all know is turbulence in life. And so, meditation, and what's fascinating to me too, is that the more studies that are done about meditation are just confirming that it is good for our bodies and our minds. When we think about things and are really intentional to focus on things, we create these new neuro pathways in our brains, which you probably all heard about.

And when we create these new neural pathways, all of a sudden, instead of going straight to anxiety, our brain starts to go to peace. So when we meditate, when we do something repeatedly, we're creating a new pathway, and that's leading us from anxiety toward peace. So we're able to think about the true things of God, meditate on those things, and find the peace that God has actually designed us to find and to know.

Natalie Tysdal

That is so, so accurate, so true. And yet we live and you have to tell me, give me your take on this. We live in such a hustle culture that finding the time, I mean, doing my morning devotion, I have to be very disciplined to do that. And so often in the middle of it, I'm like, I have a million things I need. Oh, nope, stop. I need to be focused right now. And then the kids and then the dogs and then like, no, stop. And so,

How do you incorporate that? Like for me, I love your podcast. I love you have such a soothing voice. You have such amazing messages where it's just so peaceful. Actually, I like to listen when I'm getting ready in the morning because I can sit at my mirror and it's a calming way to start my day, but also when I'm trying to fall asleep and it's just very calming like that. But how do you advise people to incorporate meditation? Because it is a way to just stop the chaos and that hustle, but it's hard to do.

Jodie Niznik

It's incredibly hard to do and it's only getting harder and harder and harder. Our brains just don't even know how to be still anymore. So I think the first piece of advice I would say is start small and give yourself a lot of grace. I think what you just described about all of a sudden you're like, oh, I got to go do this for grocery shopping and oh, my kids, I can't remember to forget this and...

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah

Jodie Niznik 

All of these random things start to come into our mind as soon as we start to relax a little bit, which is normal. And so first of all, normalize it and know, okay, I'm human. And this is what humans do, our brains think. And as soon as we start to relax, those other thoughts that we need to think have come in, or maybe they're just purely distraction. One of the things that I like to do is just keep a little notepad.

So if you're doing this in the bathroom, just keep a notepad on your counter. And when that thing comes to mind, you just jot it down and then let it go. And then come back to the meditation process again. Come back to thinking about what it was you were originally intending to think about. I keep a little, my back page of my journal is just filled with nonsense. And I will tell you 99 % of the time after I'm done with my space in being with the Lord, I'll go look at that list of notes. Most of them do not need to be taken care of. They were just purely distractions trying to pull my mind away from what I really needed to do. And I think that's really a tactic of the enemy, to be honest. So yeah, start small, give yourself a lot of grace and know this is a practice. And with any practice,

We get better the more we do it. So don't expect yourself to be awesome at meditating the first time you do it. In fact, expect it to not be the best experience, but to know there's going to be some really beautiful benefits from this. It's like exercise, right? We know when we exercise, we sleep better. When we exercise, our bodies are stronger. When we exercise, we reduce our stress. Like we could list just this whole.

Jodie Niznik 

list of reasons why we exercise. And yet I still hate running. I go for a run and I'm literally in my head going, why do people do this? I know people say they like this. I don't believe them. But there's other kinds of exercise I do like. But it hurts at first. It's not fun at first. Or you have to try different ways to find something that you enjoy doing.

Jodie Niznik 

So it's a little bit like that. There are really good benefits that should keep us persisting and trying to learn how to meditate and trying to learn how to just calm our heart and our mind a little bit so that we can be fully present in this moment where we are. But no, it doesn't come easy. It doesn't start easy.

Natalie Tysdal 

Nothing really beneficial ever does, you know, from, isn't that true? Exercise, eating well, you think of education, like none of those things are easy, but we benefit from them later. Can you walk us through what your meditation looks like or what you would advise someone? How long, you know, is it finding one scripture that you meditate on? Show us and tell us.

Jodie Niznik 

That's yeah, it's true. Yeah.

Jodie Niznik

Yeah. So when I do a meditation on the podcast, I usually choose a short passage of scripture, and we are reading it multiple times. So my intention is to find something that is short enough that our mind can hold most of the information from that passage. If it gets too long, we forget what the beginning said, or we get lost in the middle. And so T\there are some exceptions to this, but usually it's, you know, three to five verses. And I read it once and I just invite the listener, just listen, just know where this passage is going. And then we pause. And then I say the second time, now just ask the Spirit to guide you to notice a word or phrase, something in this passage that He wants to talk to you about. So, kind of meditation that I do is very spirit driven. We're asking God to speak to us through His living and active word. So that second time we see, does something stand out to me? And then hold on to that. And then we talk to God about, okay, so why did you bring that to mind? And what do you want me to talk to you about with this? And then that third time we take it another step and we say, okay, well now what? Now what do you want me to do with this? And so,

Jodie Niznik 

We're listening to that passage again, we're praying, we're asking the Lord to help us lead and guide us. And then the final time, which I think is one of the most important readings of the scripture, is that we just sit and we remember how much we are loved by our God. Especially sometimes if it's a challenging passage or a passage that may be brought up a conviction of something that we haven't been doing or something that God wants us to do. 

So this final reading is really just a space to rest and remember that you are deeply loved by the creator of the universe, the God who made time and space. He knows you and He loves you. And so you can just sit and just listen to those words and let them kind of wash over you. The other piece of meditation that I do is just breathing, connecting our breath to our movement. Because breathing, well, I mean, physically, when you take a deep breath, you're lowering your heart rate, but it's also the signal to your brain, be here, be here right now, pay attention to what you're doing right now. And so it's just a way to kind of connect with the moment and to being fully present in the space that we are. So breathing and small amounts of scripture read multiple times.

Natalie Tysdal 

It's so, so good. I mean, even just listening to you say that, it reminds me to breathe in from my nose, long, deep breath out. Like so much of that is so powerful. And when we mix those things, absolutely mix it with scripture and hearing God's voice and that word, like how calming that is. I don't do that very often. Even my morning devotion, I'm like, I'm going to run and get coffee and this, and I'm like, I'm get this in. And so to remind myself while I'm doing that to really meditate. I had a doctor tell me once, and part of this, I think, Jodi, comes from my chaos of news days where I, and maybe there are people listening who relate to this, maybe I'm one of the strange ones, I thrive on being busy. I mean, I'm really good at being busy. I'm good at being busy. I'm good at getting lists done, but I know that now later in my life, I'm paying the price for that.

Natalie Tysdal 

my cortisol levels, my adrenaline. I run on adrenaline really, really well. So I think if there are people that relate to that, it's not a healthy place to be. We think we're good in that place, but in the long run, we're not doing anybody any favors.

Jodie Niznik 

No. And you know, it's interesting is I'm the exact same way as you. I love to be busy. I love to have the list and to check it off and to get things done. And I love to feel productive. And so spending time meditating has actually been very counter to my natural makeup. And so when people, it's interesting to me because people tell me, Oh, you have such a peaceful count.

When you speak, I just feel peace. And I'm always like, huh, that's really interesting. But what that is to me is that is evidence of the transforming power of this practice in our lives. Because I don't think if you knew me five, 10 years ago, you would say, oh, you bring such peace to the table. I don't think you would say that.

Jodie Niznik 

I don't think that I had, like I didn't embody that, but I do now because I spend time with the Lord this way and it has become a lifeline for me. And, you know, and I think for anybody listening, the truth of it is it's because we go through something really difficult that we land needing something so deeply different than all the things before. And all of a sudden those coping mechanisms that had actually worked really successfully in the past just aren't working for us anymore. And that's where I found myself realizing that the way I had been doing things, it wasn't going to cut it anymore. And I had to cultivate a different relationship with God than the one I'd had previously. The one I'd had previously was exactly like you just talked about, but all that was doing was increasing the stress. It was

Jodie Niznik 

causing me anxiety, I was not sleeping through the night. I literally years were being taken off of my life because I was not abiding in the peacefulness that God calls us to. And the other thing that I realized is running at that like red line rate that our world just really applauds and pushes us to do is counter to how God created us to be.

And I believe now that when we are doing that, it's actually outside of God's will. God created these beautiful boundaries for us to live in. And all we have to do is look at, you know, we should get at least eight hours of sleep every night. If we are not getting eight hours of sleep every night, why not? And perhaps it's an exceptional season, right? You're a new mother or you're caring for somebody that's ill. I mean, there are reasons, right? But those should be seasons that come and go. And if...

Jodie Niznik 

they last for a long time, then we've got, that's a lifestyle. And then we've got to actually talk to the Lord about what's going on in my life. What have I taken on? What have I thought that you wanted me to do? Because I don't think he asks us to live outside of the wise boundaries that he's given our bodies to thrive in.

Natalie Tysdal 

I agree. And sometimes it feels like we are doing what we want, saying, well, of course this God wants me to do. Of course that's what he wants me to do instead of really sitting back. And this has been a struggle for me of saying, God, I'm listening.

What do you want me to do? Okay, now I'm going to do what I want to do. So to really stop and be still long enough to know that. And I know that's hard. I've done several podcasts on hearing God's voice, really understanding our purpose and what he wants for us here to help other people to a different type of job, to be more of a parent, whatever those things are. It's sometimes hard for people to hear that and know that.

Jodie Niznik 

Well, I think that's so incredibly true because our desires are very strong and untangling our desires from what's truly God's desire for our life can be really difficult.

And I mean, I get it messed up all the time. And so I'm certainly, I have not 100 % nailed hearing God's voice and following what God wants me to do in my life. And I don't know anyone that does, right? On this side of heaven, we depend on the Spirit to guide us, but there are all kinds of things that can get in the way of that. And it is hard to untangle all of that and to really hear and know God's voice. Now, I do think God does make sure we...there are important things that I believe God will cut through all the clutter to make sure we hear and know what He is inviting us to do. So, I don't think God will...it becomes so mysterious that we can't discover it.

Jodie Niznik 

But I'm just saying that I do think, again, give ourselves a lot of grace because our desires are really strong. Our desire to serve, potentially our desire to serve the Lord is really strong. And we may think it should look a certain way, but, you know, so the motivation is actually really good. It's just the execution may be a little bit off course, and that's difficult.

Natalie Tysdal 

However, I can guarantee and I think you will agree with me that it's even harder to hear when we don't take the time to stop and be still and listen. You know, when your life is cluttered, when you're on the go, when your to -do list is so long, it's going to be a whole lot harder to know what God wants from you. And for me, that's been a matter of saying no, setting boundaries. I actually have this visual of

Jodie Niznik 

A thousand

Natalie Tysdal

Like my plate is so full. It's not as full as it used to be. It's still kind of full, but I can't, it's too cluttered. I don't know what to eat on the plate because it's so much going on. So to just take things off. And I think that's my visual. Like I'm so big. What can I just remove? So there are fewer distractions and choices.

Jodie Niznik

Yeah, and I think we go back to scripture and see that God speaks in the quiet. You know, there's this beautiful story of Elijah wanting to hear from God and

Jodie Niznik 

So God takes him away and it's not in the storm and there's this big earthquake and it's not in the earthquake and it's not in the fire. It's in the quiet and the stillness in the whisper and that's where God speaks. And there's just scripture after scripture that tell us to be still. And it's in the stillness that we know that He is God. It's in, and there's this really great story in one of the gospels and...

The disciples are in this boat and all of a sudden this furious storm comes up and Jesus is asleep. And they go to Him and they're like, don't you even care? We're getting ready to drown. They're incredibly panicked. And Jesus gets up and He says to the wind and the waves, peace, be still. And I love that word peace because it also means silence. Just be quiet, stillness. And so He's commanding the waves to just settle. But...

Natalie Tysdal 

Okay.

Jodie Niznik

that's also true for us. It's in this like moment of quiet and stillness that that is when we can hear what God is speaking, what He has to say to us.

Natalie Tysdal 

And it's so counter to our culture, you're right, that we really have to work to make that happen. Your meditations and your podcast, we've talked about that, but you have a lot of other stuff that you do in helping people and writing and tell us about that and how we can learn from those things.

Jodie Niznik

Yeah, so my primary ministry right now is these meditations, and I create a new meditation every Monday. It's a guided scripture meditation that just hopefully leads people to find peace and to remember that God is present with them. But I've also written some Bible studies, and those are...

Jodie Niznik

They also have spiritual practices in them. So one of the things that I'm really passionate about is, yes, study God's Word, but also practice and try things that take that head knowledge into our heart and out into our hands. And so I have written, I've got five published Bible studies that I've written, and those are on Amazon. I mean, they're anywhere you can buy books, I guess. And so that's available. But then another thing that we just recently created is a retreat to help people move through seasons of their lives. You know, a lot of times we come up against a transition season, whether it's sending kids off to college and all of a sudden we find we're in an empty nest or whether it's knowing that we need to leave perhaps a career and start a new vocation or just it's time to move. We know, we sense that God is like stirring change in our life. And so I created a series of guided retreats to help us kind of, or guided meditations that I've packaged as what I'm calling a retreat. But it's like a three to four hour, just quiet space to be with the Lord. And I guide you every step of the way to kind of look back, see what you need to let go of to assess your present and really ask the Lord, okay, what is

what is true about this season that I'm in, that you're inviting me to move forward, and then how to move forward thoughtfully and perhaps even sense from him, oh, this is the next step that you're inviting me on. This is where I'm supposed to go. And so, yeah, so that's also available. And all of that is also on my website.

Natalie Tysdal 

I'll be sure and put a link to your website in the show notes for anybody who wants those. I could have used that about three or four years ago and really trying to make the decision to leave a career. I love that. See, it all comes out of out of need, right? And I think for a lot of people, we spend so long in the career or the relationship that it could be a friend.

Jodie Niznik 

I know, me too, that's why I created it.

Natalie Tysdal 

something that we just think we need and yet we don't know how to go to that next step and we're scared of that next step. So really being quiet long enough to do that and I love it that you've guided people through that. That's wonderful. Okay, last bit of advice. What can you give us? Big piece of advice, a learning, something as a takeaway before we say goodbye that people can learn from in your experience.

Jodie Niznik 

I would say one of the things that you can do if you are feeling anxious in a moment is something called breath prayer. And that is simply connecting our breath to a truth from God's Word. And I love to use Psalm 23. And so it's really, this is what I call my 2 a .m. prayer. The Lord is my shepherd.

I lack nothing. And so what you can do is you just breathe in, the Lord is my shepherd, and exhale, I lack nothing. And just remembering the Lord is my shepherd. I lack nothing. And what that means is because God is a good shepherd, we have everything we need. We may not have everything we want, but we have everything we need.

Jodie Niznik 

And why I say that's my 2 a .m. prayer is because a lot of times at 2 a .m., that's when all the crazy thoughts stir up and you start to feel anxiety if you've woken up in the middle of the night. And this is just something that you can say, breathing in and breathing out, and it will calm your heart and recenter you on what is true and what is right. And so that would be the last advice I would give. Try that. Try that next time you're feeling a little bit anxious.

Natalie Tysdal 

I love that. That's great. When we fill our hearts and our minds with the word and then we use that in that breath work. I'm going to do that. I love that. Good. Well, thank you so much for your time. Once again, I'll put the resources in the show notes for everyone and I encourage you to follow Jodi on social media and you'll see what she's up to and find encouragement from her.

Jodie Niznik 

Oh my gosh, thank you. Sorry. I feel like I was like fighting sunshine and mowers and I hope it wasn't too chaotic.

Natalie Tysdal

All the best to you, Jodi, take care