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Natalie: Stress can be a burden, but it doesn't have to be. In today's podcast, you will learn how to turn your stress into an opportunity for growth and increased productivity.

Natalie: Hi everyone, it's Natalie. I know how hard it can be to deal with stress. It can feel like it's taking over your life and keeping you from achieving all of the goals that you've set for yourself. But the truth is, if managed correctly, stress can actually be a very powerful tool that will help you become more organized, more productive.

Successful. I'm so happy to invite back one of my favorite guests, Dr. Robin Hanley Defoe. Last year, Robin joined me to talk about becoming more resilient and the five pillars of resilience. I was blown away by that conversation. I have always been curious as to why some people get stronger during challenges and others.

Fold, Robin, help me and all of you who listened, understand how we can strengthen our bounce back and our resiliency. Dr. Robin and I have kept in touch. As a matter of fact, I just did a review of her new book, stress Wisely a few months ago. She is such an inspiration as a mom, as a. Speaker as a researcher.

If you haven't heard that first episode, I encourage you to go and listen to it. I will link it in the show notes. It was episode number 33 for today. We're gonna talk about stress and we're gonna go into things like. Social comparison, shadow behavior, giving ourselves grace when we wake up, not feeling a hundred percent, and you don't have to be at a hundred percent every day.

By the way, also, we're gonna talk about the fear of failure and so much more. I know you're gonna love Robin as much as I do. Thank you so much as always, for taking the time to listen. Please take just a moment. Sign up for my newsletter. You can see what's coming up on the podcast and also on my website with the blogs and other projects I have going on.

The link to do that, to sign up for the newsletter is in the show notes today. It's also on my website, natalie tsol.com. I hope it continues to help you in your journey. Let's get started today with Dr. Robin Hanley. Defoe.

Robin. Thank you. We have both been looking forward to this for months. Sometimes the better things we have to wait for, right? We had to reschedule.

Dr. Robyne: Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited to spend time with you today, Natalie.

Natalie: Well, ever since we last spoke a year or so ago, I knew you had the new book coming out. I knew you were doing new research, and it is so in line and in tune with my life and what I'm doing that I, I'm so appreciative of the research that you do and what you write about because it's so encouraging. So get everybody up to speed on what you're doing.

Dr. Robyne: Yeah. So my research usually focuses around human resiliency, which I've loved and I've appreciated, you know, two decades of really getting to the kind of the ins and outs of what it takes for somebody to bounce back. For them to be able to rally through difficult times and seasons of their lives.

And where this shift came from was noticing that persons who had gone through a lot, there were some persons that almost seemed that to lead to have this like hedge of protection around them that made them more capable and they went through something hard or allow them to like bounce. Back with more ease.

And so we got really curious about what those factors were.

So we knew what makes someone resilient, but then we were curious about, okay, well when they go through that, what really helps them get back to a place of steady and feeling okay again? So then we started to see these like trends around practices of wellness.

So in the new book, stress Wisely, we talk about the eight realms that we learned about from persons, that this is really what cultivates not only a bounce, Back effect, but also a proactive approach. So then that way when things do go off the rails, they already have systems and habits and practices to get themselves up and well quicker.

Natalie: It's almost like you're taking care of your body and then you get the flu, you're better equipped to deal with the flu or whatever that illness is. I know we're talking in a mental kind of space, but when you're treating your body well every day, you're exercising, you're, you're eating the right things.

You're gonna bounce back from a physical illness the same way.

Dr. Robyne: Yes. And what we actually learned, and I I love that example because we know like absolutely our physical health is a huge component to our wellness. And what we were able to like expand our understanding was that that was so related to our emotional health, to our social health, to our intellectual health.

So what I just thought was so fascinating is how all of these different realms really contribute to a person's capacity to be able to like, Build those wellness practices in the form of exercise or movement practices and just how that had that ripple effect in all these other areas as well.

Natalie: Well, let's dive a little deeper into what some of those realms are and things that we can do because it's inevitable. We will all face challenges in our lives. We're gonna need to bounce back from something big or small. So let, let's dive into what some of those are and how we can get help from your research.

Dr. Robyne: of course. I love that question. Thank you. So the first kind of big idea around stressing Wisely is actually a wee bit of a mind shift. Naturally that stress is inherent to the human condition, and a lot of the practices that we often think about stress management, it's this idea of getting rid of stress, trying to like de, you know, de-stress our lives.

Yet the reality is we'll always. Find stressors like that's just again, inherent to our experience. So the conversation switches to, instead of trying to get rid of it, how do I become somebody who works with it more effectively? How do I make stress my ally, not my enemy? And so one of the things that kind of, that idea is that first one.

So how do I make stress my ally? It's to recognize it's here to stay and I need to get better at working with it versus my energy going to trying to get rid of it. So that's kind of the first big idea. Now, the second big idea again, is thinking about our stress practices around that physical, like we talked about, but it's also that emotional, right?

Recognizing that role of like looking after our emotional health, making sure our, our thoughts and our feelings have like a safe place to land in our lives. The other one we learned about too is like that

that intellectual piece. And when we think

about that one, Natalie, we think about this idea that like how we

think and how we see the world has such a direct correlation to how we feel in the world.

So even for example, you know, noticing how we talk to ourselves, right? Some of us have this like inherent kind of almost like this inner critic versus some people have this inner coach, right? Just knowing that our lived experience will like shape how we think. And when we start to notice it, we can shift from that critic to coach and just start meeting ourselves in a more compassionate way.

Other things that we learned about in that work is also that social component. And what's interesting, we're social beings, yet when we're under distress, I. We actually pull away from community. We use the joke, kind of this idea naturally that we all wanna be invited to the party, but none of us actually wanna go, right?

Like we wanna be included. But when we're in a place of distress, we don't have the energy. So again, recognizing how do we show up and meet ourselves in kind of essentially whatever season in our lives we're in.

Natalie: Yeah, those are all so good and, and we can relate to them and we think, yeah, that's true.

Implementing them, like you said, going to the party. We all wanna feel like, I, people care about me. They want me to come. But it takes so much more to implement. All of these things that you're talking about, talk about that, and maybe it's talking yourself into it, that inner voice, but give us more on that

Dr. Robyne: Yes, of course.

So one of the things that we think about first is having like the clarity as to like why this matters, right? So we're not doing these things just for the sake of doing them, you know, we we're doing it because it actually aligns with our values. It aligns with how I wanna be in the world, how I wanna show up in community, how I wanna show up for myself, how I wanna show up for my family.

So that's kind of that first kind of intervention that we think about is understanding we're doing it for the right reasons. And then the second thing, and I often let folks know our wellness, Natalie is so much closer than we think it is. And what I mean by that, in our culture, We've really been conditioned with these before and afters, right?

Like kind of, you know, this is what somebody started with and now look at them. Whereas our wellness comes down to daily decisions. So if we make the right choices, especially early in the day, could really set the tone for how we're gonna feel throughout the day. And when we feel better, we choose better, we think better.

And again, we can make space for those things that matter most.

Natalie: What about when, when you're just having a bad day? I mean, you're such a positive person and you've researched this, so you know, and we, you understand how to implement it and you give people this advice, but we all just have those days where you wake up feeling like, Ugh, am I gonna get through this day?

Dr. Robyne: Yeah. So again, when I appreciate your kind feedback. Thank you. I choose to lean in to the positive,

right? And I think, again,

there's a component to our choices, right? I choose to lean in to the things that are going right and well versus getting kind of clouded or pulled down by some of the negativity, which is easy to do.

So again, first of all, it's that choice. Now when you're wake up and in the moment you notice, you just are not feeling it today, maybe you're feeling agitated, irritable. Or just this deep sense of urgency. My first invitation for you is to recognize that we don't have to be a hundred percent every day.

And if you wake up and notice like, you know what, I'm at about a 50% capacity, that actually is your a hundred percent that day. So giving yourself permission that, you know what, today I need to have, like, for example, like a, a tender Tuesday, I have to walk gently today. I'm not gonna push myself to try and be a.

Taught performer today in my life. And what's interesting again, that 50% is your a hundred percent. And what we see in the research when we have like radical clarity and honesty with ourselves in terms of how much can I show up today? And we start matching that. We actually are extremely productive and healthy and balanced because we're working with the resources that we have.

So even noticing when you wake up in the morning, if you're not feeling it, say, you know what, today it's a 40% kind of day. So that means as a parent, I'm going to find some like strategies to simplify my day. So that's not gonna be the day I'm gonna make homemade cookies for the bake

sale. Those are the days I'm gonna buy them, right?

That's not the day I'm going to try and help with math. If somebody's needing help in their schoolwork, I'm going to bring in somebody else to sit there at math time to help with their homework. 'cause I know I don't have it in me today. And what's beautiful the more we honor that, Nat, the next day we might notice, hey, I'm a 75.

Hey, I'm a hundred today. I'm feeling really great. So again, it's just that honesty with ourselves that we don't have to push, and sometimes the most productive things we can do is to take something off our to-do list.

Natalie: Yeah. And who's a hundred percent every day anyway.

You know, I mean, that's a, that's a really significant thing to, so to wake up and say, okay, so maybe I am 40% today. Have that grace for yourself and say that's actually normal. And I tend to, and I think a lot of my listeners too, we, especially as women, not always, but we give ourselves this standard that is so ridiculously high.

Part of that's social media, right? We see everybody else doing all these wonderful things. They're not posting about the bad things. I just did an episode on that. If anybody wants to go back and listen to it. But you know, it's that, it's that digital comparison where you feel like I'm not enough because you're, we're now exposing ourselves to everyone doing so much.

Dr. Robyne: Yes, and and you're absolutely right. And again, we are, again, we're social creatures, so we always wanna have like a wee bit of a pulse check on what others are doing because that's how we feel safe and we feel like in the know and we wanna be included. But what's really pretty beautiful to witness is that when people like self-select out of that chasing.

They start to experience a level of peace that they might have never been able to experience if they stayed engaged in that level of social comparison. And you're absolutely right. What people post is a highlight reel. It's very aspirational. And there's actually research that just came out naturally that talks about, and they were looking at and at this particular sample, they were looking at heterosexual couples and posting behavior, and they actually found the people who were in the more secure, healthy marriages and partnerships.

Posted photos of their partners less than people who were in, in situations and marriages that weren't as, as stable or, or as consistent.

Natalie: That is so interesting and you can see why, like almost trying to prove something by posting it versus I'm pretty good with where I am. I don't need to tell the world. Right.

Dr. Robyne: Absolutely. And, and that brings.

this, This

deep sense of that that's not the stuff that matters most, right?

Like when you take yourself outta that social comparison and, and again, lean into what matters most to you and have that clarity of what my values are, what do I, how do I wanna show up? What matters most?

It makes a big difference in our wellness,

Natalie: Yeah. Let's get back to stress for a minute. I feel like we live in such a a rat race culture, if you wanna call it that. There are a lot of things we could call it and we just get involved in so much. I'm trying to, at this stage in my life, we both have three kids and we work and we write and we podcast and we do all of but.

I've done that to myself.

Like I have added all of these things. So I'm at a place where I'm trying to remove some of those things. So can you talk about just that busy world we live in and we bring on the stress, we do it to ourselves.

Dr. Robyne: So I think what, where this comes back to, and I can echo that sentiment of feeling so similar in both of our worlds. So I think what it comes down to is, is that piece around like intention. So it's one of those things where we just all of a sudden notice we've overcommitted perhaps, and again, why are we over committing?

Is it that feeling of needed to be included? Does that make us feel safe? If we're so busy we don't actually have to. Sit with those big feelings. But one of the ways that I help people reframe what we're describing and all this noise and this busyness is really coming to terms with like, what discomfort are you the most comfortable with?

Like, what pain or frustrations or stress are you the most comfortable with? And something that I know is being busy is actually a discomfort that I, on some level enjoy

because I

Natalie: I'm so, we're kindred souls. I

know. I mean,

Dr. Robyne: wouldn't do this. Yeah,

Natalie: and not everyone listening. I realize we, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just

Dr. Robyne: no, that's good.

Natalie: because I related to you that we like being busy. That's our comfort zone. I mean, I worked in the news culture for 28 years. Busy was what I knew best over, you know, that heavy pressure.

I, I thrived in that. But not everyone relates to that. But they might have other things. They're uncomfortable with that actually. They're, they do okay with. So I continue what we're saying. I, I hope you, I didn't help make you lose your train of

Dr. Robyne: No, no, no.

I told I'm with

you.

Yeah, I'm with

you.

Natalie: those different those different points that they, they feel uncomfortable with, but they actually thrive in.

Dr. Robyne: Exactly.

So I think what's really important, again, is just kind of understanding what that shadow behavior

is

around it. So if I'm chasing because I don't wanna actually sit with my feelings or I'm trying to earn my worth. Natalie, that's completely different than being somebody who thrives in like that hustle and that bustle and just like really just finds that's where they kind of perform at their best.

So again, it's looking at the shadows like, am I doing this because I am trying again, earning my worth? Or am I doing it because something's not working and I'm avoiding it or ignoring it, versus, Hey, this is what I like my body to feel like and my head and my heart to feel. Feel like when I am showing up in all of these different life areas.

And the other piece around that, again, mindful that some folks don't enjoy that state of being like what we call high arousal, right? Where we really like to be on point on all the things when we think about this and that kind of alternates as we see this idea about it being a noble. Pursuit. So I'll give you an example.

Like if you as a, you know, as a parent, you know, really pride yourself on like, you know, showing up to have those conversations with your teenager even, you might be exhausted, but when they come down and they, you know, sit at the end of your bed at midnight and say like, Hey mom, can we chat? And you're

like,

oh my gosh. I know it's like, it was the same as when children are little. It's like bedtime is when they, their conversations prolong the bedtime experience by hours. But it's to recognize that like, and in your value system, if that's a noble pursuit, that you wanna be the parent who shows up and has that conversation.

It doesn't burn us out the same way. Versus us doing something that we feel is obligatory. So for example, if your boss said, Hey, I wanna talk to you, stay after work, we're gonna have this conversation. That feels really obligatory. There's a power dynamic there. But if your kid says, Hey mom, I wanna have this chat.

We find it, we dig deep, we find it because it's a noble pursuit that aligns our values. So again, if what we're doing is trying to keep up with the neighbors or keep up with the social media, That really isn't a noble pursuit and that's gonna leave us in that place of chasing versus we are in that place of doing the things that actually align with who we are as people, and we know who we are and who we are not.

And this is who we, this is how we show up in our lives.

Natalie: Yeah. So tell me more about the book in particular. We've talked a lot about some of the some of those realms that you're dealing in and that you're giving people advice in, but this

more about tips and from the book that you can give us to help us in our everyday lives.

Dr. Robyne: of course. So one of the big invitations of the book, when we look at the eight realms of wellness, is to actually kind of invite us to look at it with a critical lens about like, what do we already know to be true about this topic? So for example, like again, physical health. What do we know to be true about physical health?

Where did some of our beliefs or I, our ideas come from? And kind of looking at whether or not, does this still serve me? Does this still make sense? Does this still fit? And I'll give you one really interesting example from the book in terms of a takeaway. And I've heard from so many people that this was just this like, Eye-opening moment, and it actually was in the physical health chapter that talks about calories.

So first what I did naturally was introduce where did calories actually come from and where did this idea that women especially, were supposed to only have 1200 of them a day, and that's something that's still taught in medical school. And what was remarkable when my research team and I took a deep dive, To figure out where did this information come from?

We actually learned, it actually had come out of the suffocate movement. And what was happening is that women were becoming so powerful finding their voices after the wars. They were really getting their stride. And the medical community, which was predominantly male, was consulted and asked, how do we weaken these women?

How do we slow them down?

And

they said,

Natalie: as much. Oh,

Dr. Robyne: Have them not eat as much, lower the caloric intake because that will make them frail and it will make them weaker and they're not as likely to rebel if they're hungry. And what was so remarkable is, again, you go into a doctor's office in North America and we still see these B M I charts, we still see these caloric suggestions.

And what's remarkable is it came from a history. Of repression. So if you've ever rebelled against a diet and ever said, you know what, 1200 calories, that's not enough. And you go ahead and you have something else. You're part of this amazing history of women that are standing up for what's right and what's just and true.

Natalie: Wow, that's so powerful. I had no idea.

Dr. Robyne: Yeah, so again, the whole book, what we tried to do is like just really bring in some of the history behind, like what do we know, for example, in the realm of finances, because we know our finances have an impact on our health. And even asking people, you know, what was your money story like growing up? What were you taught?

Money. How did you, how did your family or your family system discuss or make decisions about money? So even just giving people the opportunity to kind of ask some of those critical questions. And the book doesn't necessarily have all the answers obviously, but what my real intention was Naly was help people to ask the good question that's gonna help them unlock what is it that they need to learn more about, or what's gonna bring them closer to their health and wellness goals.

Natalie: How much of a person's upbringing and the people that they maybe modeled themselves after or their mentors growing up impacts the way we deal with? I mean, I find that I now, at this stage of my life, I'm looking back going, oh, I probably made those, these types of decisions, or I got into this type of profession because I watched my mom like really work hard as a single mom for many years.

To maybe prove herself or whatever that may have been, but how much of it has to do with how we're brought up?

Dr. Robyne: I think of that as kind of our, like our, our early years as the blueprint, right? So we obviously

have our genetics. We already have, you know, we're predisposed to certain things on a biological level, but that, that nurturing piece creates that blueprint of how we see ourselves in the world. How do we feel safe?

How do we kind of, or how are we included? Like all of that is established in that early blueprint, but that doesn't mean that that's something that's a sentence, right? We talk about this a lot, especially for people who've experienced trauma. We wanna revisit some of those ideas that this doesn't preclude us from a big, bright future.

It means we just have to go into that big, bright future probably in a different way and making sure that we have the right supports in place. So our, our early years have a huge impact, but it isn't a life sentence. We're able to learn, we're able to grow, we're able to evolve. It's, the idea though, becomes it's this idea about like, are we able to do the work?

And I'll share with you, I've yet to meet an adult. Who hasn't had one area in their life where they know that they need to shine a little bit of light on that, they need to put some work into it. We don't get through childhood unscathed. None of

Natalie: of us.

Right. Yeah. And, and I always like to say that those things, they form us in a good way too.

I mean, we have that grit, but you know, I, my kids go through hard times. I know yours do. We all do. They didn't make the team, they didn't get into the show. They didn't, you know, they didn't do well on a test. But it, it helps them rise to the occasion right later to work hard towards it. They have to know failure at some point.

Dr. Robyne: Absolutely. And one of the things we talk about, especially on that notion of our resiliency, it's that teaching them how to be resilient when the stakes are lower actually helps them as they grow. So letting a child experience disappointment, working not on their own. Obviously we wanna, we wanna be those supporters.

Sometimes we might need to be a rescuer and pull them out of dangerous situations. Also allowing them to be supported through certain situations will give them the tools when they're older and the stakes are lower when we figure that out, when we're in earlier years versus your first obstacle trying to figure it out when you're in your first year of university or college or trades, like that's not when you want.

Them to start practicing resilient strategies. You want them to have a toolkit before they even get there. And I'll share with you one of the, one of the really kind of interesting dialogues I actually had recently with one of my kiddos. So all of my children are very involved in sports and they all kinda have their primary sport that they do.

But my youngest, he was actually trying a different sport. He just was just for a little bit just to kinda get his feet wet to see what this was about. So he is a basketball player who was gonna try rowing. And I recall when I was taking him to the rowing tryout, naturally, I said to him, I said, Jax, I just want you to know you have my full permission to suck at this.

You can be the worst rower out there. There is no expectation that you have to be the all star who gets picked first or even gets invited into the boat. I'm giving you full permission. To let this just not go great. And he looked at me and he is like, mama, I can't believe people pay you to do motivational talks.

And you literally just told me that I'm allowed to suck. And what I was interesting is I, I, what I reframed from is I said, buddy, you don't have to be perfect. And when you are an all star in another sport, there's this. Propensity that you just feel like you have to be perfect in all of your life areas Anyway, and then when I collected him afterwards, I asked him how it went and he said, you know, I was in the middle and I was akay to be in the middle of the pack in terms of talent and skill.

And he said, thank you for giving me permission not to be great at something.

Natalie: Did he continue rowing or is he

Dr. Robyne: No, no. He did it just for one session. And, and the really cool thing about rowing, it's a late entry sport, so it's something that down the road he could pursue more. But it was just, again, just that dialogue of giving our children permission that they don't have to have it all figured out.

And it's okay to be able to be a, a beginner at some things again. And I would love to be able to extend that permission to us as grownups. That it's okay to be a beginner, and it's okay to relearn and unlearn and try again.

Natalie: when we're really good at something or we've learned a profession say or something.

And I'm, I'm an example of this, of starting over a second career, you know that that's hard for someone who has accomplished, and not necessarily speaking about myself, but other people where you feel good about yourself in something you've worked really hard in. Say a profession, a job, but you're, and that makes us often scared to start over, to try something new, to fail or to be the person in the middle who's really just, okay, when we're used to being good at something,

Dr. Robyne: Yeah, there's this beautiful example and especially to kind of riff off and pull that string about what you're saying about second career. 'cause I think this can apply to like second relationships and like moving and when we have to start over again. It's this kind of philosophy that's talked about as the, as the two mountains.

So, so many of us when we're growing up, we're kind of conditioned and raised. That there's this one path up, this mountain, and we're gonna work towards the summit. And most of us, we stay pretty committed to climbing, growing, learning, doing all the things. And a lot of times that's, you know, you go to school, you get the job, you get married, you kind of follow this path.

And then for some people they stay there. They stay there for their whole life, and that's their, that's their peak and they're able to enjoy it and it works for them. Now, there's a very large percentage though of the population where all of a sudden we actually have this avalanche and we go down the other side of that summit and we lose a job.

It's an illness, it's a, a marriage ends, and all of a sudden we're in this valley and we have to make a decision. Are we going to try to climb back up where we've come from? Reestablish our career, our relationships, our identity, or are we willing and brave enough to try and climb that new summit that's in front of us?

And when we take that bold step towards trying something new, with the lessons learned, I. From the first experience, what we know is the level of satisfaction, health, wellness, purpose, meaning making all of the things that make the good life. Natalie, we see that on the second summit. We see

that when we hit that second mountaintop.

Natalie: Do you find in, in your profession, in working with people that, that they go after that second mountain most often? Because that's hard. That's

Dr. Robyne: Yeah. I would say it's you know, again, as a, as a statistician, as a researcher, you know, I wanna give you a, you know, a number. What I see, I would say about a third of people who are in the valley will stay in the valley. I. They'll let that divorce, they'll let that lost job, they'll let that adversity define them and they stay stuck.

I would say the other third, they try to recreate what they know because it's familiar, right? They'll find something familiar, they'll just, you know, find a different company or a different relationship. And I would say again about that other third, Of persons will, will try again in a new way. And that's the ones that, you know, they get that maybe it's hell, right?

Maybe it's they go and work through some of the issues, they kind of learn from their experiences. And then that third will take that second summit. And again, the ones that do experience this unlocking of their true potential. And then often what happens in those cases, that third, who do that climb, they turn around and help the people behind them.

Natalie: Oh boy. Yeah. And, and the satisfaction that comes from that is so rewarding in being able to help. Wow.

That's, that's fascinating. I don't know that, that, that might be your next book. The thirds.

Dr. Robyne: Yeah. It,

uh, but again,

it's, oh, well thank

you. But it, to me, it's, it's really almost. It's really touched my heart because I see it in practice all across different industries. I see these kind of universal truths about when we're able to like learn from it and we're able to kind of reestablish ourselves and figure it out again, we, we wouldn't have been able to like have the joy or the peace or that steadfast belief that all would be well if we didn't go through those darker seasons.

Natalie: Yeah, that's so true. So what are you working on? I

Dr. Robyne: great question.

Natalie: know you have just launched this other book, so you need a little bit of a break, but what, what's next and what are you doing?

Dr. Robyne: Yeah, so, so professionally, I'm so enjoying these conversations about bringing really practical wellness into the hands of people that are tired of tools, right? They're tired of being uncomfortable in their own bodies. They're tired of. Feeling just like they're not enough. So professionally, I'm really appreciating that venture of just really giving people accessible information to help them feel better today.

And again, I just, I love that unlearning process where people can like shed some of the things that are no longer serving them and start to feel better right now. And so that's professionally, I'm continuing that work. Personally in our home, we're getting ready for our oldest to head off to university in a few short weeks.

So I am pulling out all of the emotional tools to try and support that transition for myself and the family. Hunters off to university and so again, it's transition and I'm complete. I have. The utmost confidence that it will go well for him. He is well, he is well, well suited for the challenge ahead of him.

He's my dandelion boy where he just thrives. Even if it's, you know, a difficult situation, hunter comes out on top. So but emotionally as a parent, it's a transition. and you know, it's never gonna be

Natalie: mom. I, it's no matter how hard I tried to hold it together,

Dr. Robyne: Yeah.

Natalie: it's a big one. Yeah. I

Dr. Robyne: And, you know, one of the things that's so beautiful that I just that kind of speaks to Hunter and his temperament.

Natalie, one of the things I didn't even realize he was doing this last year was preparing his brother and sister on how to show up for mom when I'm not here.

And,

and so he's been like coaching his. Siblings, his little sister and his little brother about, you know, these are the things that really, really help mom.

And I'll give you an example. He said, you know, when mom's kind of like chasing her tail is an expression we use

in our house

where I'm just kind of going in

circles. Um, Said, you know, just go up right in front of her and say, mom, what's one thing I can take off your plate in this moment? Gimme

one job in

this moment.

And he said she, she loves it. And then he also said, notice what music she's listening to. If she's listening to certain music. Nineties alternative, don't ask. You're not gonna like her answer. If she's listening to like peaceful, calm music, ask. 'cause she's in a good mood. So he is like literally prepping his brother and sister, which has brought me this deep joy that you know, again, family, we're all interconnected even when we're geographically

Natalie: What a blessing that you have a son like that, that's that in tune with you and your family and sounds like he is very well equipped for the next stage on his own.

Dr. Robyne: yes. So,

so those are the, those are the, those are the waters I'm navigating right now. And just doing it with a lot of grace and a lot of patience with my emotions and myself as I continue to kind of work in this field.

Natalie: Well, I'm so appreciative of your time and I'd love your new book and congratulations on it. I encourage everyone, tell them where they can find you to follow, you get more motivation and to buy the book.

Dr. Robyne: Thank you Natalie. So it's Dr. Robin dot Sea. The website kind of links you off to all of the different resources and information in the socials is at Dr. Robin and the book. It's available wherever you like to find your favorite books.

Natalie: Okay. And I'll be sure and put it in the show notes for anyone who needs that inspiration or can think of someone who could use it. I think we all can. So good to talk to you.

Dr. Robyne: You as well. Take good care.