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Natalie Tysdal

Dr. Romy, thank you for joining. Weeks, actually months, I have looked forward to this conversation.

Dr. Romie 

Same sister, same. When I saw that a like -minded sister who really understands digging deep in healthcare and your journalism background, I knew we would have what I, in my world, call Dr. Romi real talk. So,

Natalie Tysdal

have one of those. And we have more in common than I think you even know because somewhere in my bio maybe I spoke about this but the burnout and the career you thought you were going to have isn't now where you ended up and you spent a lot of time as a doctor. So before we get into the busy brain and all of that let's let's talk about how you got there. Give us your backgrounds.

Dr. Romie

I am the proud daughter of immigrants and English is my third language. And it should, like I always say, I had a success mantra whispered in my ear by my father in the newborn nursery. I have one daughter and you really become a doctor. And I mean, I think I'm maybe a little older than you sister, but I grew up in the day of like Lincoln logs and cabbage patch kids, yes.

Natalie Tysdal 

I'm going to go to bed.

Natalie Tysdal

I'm not any older than I am.

Dr. Romie 

But my favorite toy as a baby and child was my neon Fisher Price stethoscope. And I knew, like I, and back then in a small town in Illinois, girls weren't tracked into science, technology, engineering, math and medicine, like no. And there was a community of my mom and my aunties that people read about in the book that held onto this vision. And I enjoyed every minute of it and became you know, a doctor entered neurology at a time where less than 5 % of the brain doctors in America were women. I had arrived and girl, I look good doing it. I ain't going to lie because I thought my life was about acquiring labels and titles and awards. Being the only woman you were going to hear my designer stilettos walking through the hospital corridors. I was not only a doctor seeing patients, but a researcher doing very well in my field, loving it, mission driven life.

Except like you weren't allowed to say it in those days, Natalie, and I'm guessing you had the similar career as a successful journalist. Like I was struggling. We didn't have the word mental health crisis or burnout back in those days. I literally thought somebody had an on and off switch to my brain. Like what's going on? And I know firsthand that chronic stress can cause physical disease and chronic stress can kill you. It almost killed me and I should have known better. I'm a brain doctor.

And I was only in my young thirties when I ended up in life -saving surgery, laying there in the hospital bed going, nothing I've learned in medical school is going to help me now. I don't know what to do. Fast forward from 2010 to 2024 when we're recording this podcast. And I will honestly say I am here to open my heart in this conversation with you because you and I have traveled through our mess. So somebody won't need to deal with theirs.

Natalie Tysdal 

It's so true. So what happened? 2010, you changed the, you changed course. I did the same thing. And people thought, and I'm sure you got this maybe from your friends and your family. What are you doing? You have worked so hard. You made it.

Yes, I thought first, you know, we jump one hamster wheel to another. So I don't know if you switched television stations and media organizations. I went from academic medicine to community hospital. And then I was in learning global healing traditions, traveling the world. What I thought was healing myself, but somewhere along the way I realized like, oh my God, there's a different way to approach brain and mental health. This is not just about me, but about people I can serve.

Dr. Romie 

It sounds like a clean talking point to you, but really I want people to know from the time I was sick in 2010, recovering from surgery and people hear it in my Ted talk, learning about mindfulness and Ayurveda and yoga at a time there weren't meditation apps in this country or yoga studios or Lululemon. You know, to the time that I really figured out I was going to leave traditional medicine, that was probably about three, four years. And you were right. I thought I was crazy.

You read in the book, my aunties are like, I know you're a brain doctor, but you've lost your mind. You left the hospital job, six figure income to become, what is it? An entrepreneur? I don't even know what that is. Hi, hi, hi. And probably that internal negative voice that was being mirrored in my external world that I'm crazy, I've lost my mind, held me back. But when you're on a life purpose and a mission that's given to you from above, like the universe will open a door. I probably just made a lot of operational financial mistakes along the way, but here we are today.

Natalie Tysdal

Yeah. Okay, so let's get into the brain then. We experienced, as so many people do, different levels of burnout. And I know you have quantified that in different levels of that in your book. But explain what that looks like. I didn't know that's what I was going through. I just knew. I had a similar vision. You talk about the stilettos and wanting to be this doctor, that all of these things. I'm like...

I can do it all. I can be a mom of three and get up at two in the morning and do a five hour morning show, do the research, do the stories, make dinner, have a beautiful house. I can have this perfect life. And I couldn't figure out why I couldn't do it and why I felt like crap all the time. And I couldn't, I couldn't figure out. I thought I could do it. I wanted to do it. I saw it. I had the vision board. I all of that until my body shut down as well.

We can only do so much. So let's talk about the brain. What happens and what has your research and now your book, what happens in the brain when we see that?

Dr. Romie 

Yeah. I think too many of us in search of a perfect life of what we honestly wanted that. I want to honor it. Like you honestly wanted this life as a successful mom, homemaker, journalist. I wanted this life as a successful professor, doctor, researcher. And yet we are pushing ourselves to the edge of burnout, living in chronic stress. And then we look for a TikTok tip.

that says, what is one thing you can do right now to rewire your brain and move forward with the day? And that's not how it works. That these stress management techniques that were out there in the pre -pandemic world no longer apply. We're at something in the brain, psychologically, spiritually, physically, that I call our mental capacity, where psychological capacity, we can't handle anything more. And...

All systems are on go. And it's why I see in the workplace as a chief wellness officer, as we were researching this book, somebody looks like a high performer, like you and I, like a salesperson and their end of month sales report is due. And they blow a gasket and scream and say they hate their boss and they quit their job. And you're like, what happened? They were our star sales performer. We're all at that mental capacity. Chronic stress.

is really dangerous. It actually creates a pattern of neuroinflammation. Can I get geek or girl brain science with you? Oh my gosh, Natalie, I'm so excited. This is why I love talking to a health reporter and someone with your background. So we know neuroinflammation has existed in the brain known as neuroinflammation. I knew that back when I went to medical school, that's what causes the changes that cause MS in the brain or Alzheimer's. But in the last eight years, scientists have uncovered that just living under chronic stress alone,

not having the genes for Parkinson's or MS or Alzheimer's, just the stress alone will cause a pattern of neuroinflammation in the brain. It elevates something known as your interleukin 1 and other free radicals that specifically damages your airport traffic control of the brain known as your hypothalamus that controls your circadian rhythm. So I call it the airport traffic control tower of the brain because I live in Orlando, Florida. So Orlando, Florida's airport is connected to most major cities in America. People come for it, theme parks and many, um,

Dr. Romie 

countries around the world. If there's a thunderstorm here and we have to shut down the airport traffic control tower, no flights can take off or land, but it's not just an Orlando problem. Now within seconds, flights are delayed or canceled in New York, in LA, in Hong Kong, in London. It's a global effect. That's exactly what the hypothalamus of the brain does. It is connected to the rest of your brain. So all of a sudden, chronic stress and something tips it over the edge.

your cognition, your mood is off, but it's also connected to every other system in your body, digestion, hormones, your joints, your immune system. And that's what chronic stress is doing to us. And I researched a particular pattern that I uncovered that's been happening in high achieving professionals, just like you and I call the busy brain. And that's where we are today. These were the people like you and I who would say, I'm eating clean, I exercise, I'm living the life that was on my vision board.

Why am I still struggling?

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the whole book is about this and I encourage people to put the link in the show notes, encourage people to buy it, read it, learn from it. But give us some ideas here today. What? Okay.

Dr. Romie

Yeah. Oh, completely. I'm going to walk you through the whole protocol and in the brief time we have.

Natalie Tysdal 

What can we do? So I, you know, I still, and I will fully admit that it's been three years, two years since I left that crazy busy lifestyle. I still find myself taking on more. Like I think I was trained in the news business and probably as a doctor and many people relate to this. Like I thrive under stress. I do, my performance is better when I stress.

I don't know why, when I have too much time, so I'll just get to that tomorrow. But when I've got a deadline, oh boy, I have amazing results.

Dr. Romie 

So that's the acute stress right and you we've trained our ways to procrastinate or perfectionism whatever it is that and the human nature is i need a deadline like i may not make the bed but if i know someone's coming over and they may see the bedroom i'm gonna make the bed right we need some kind of psychological motivation to get something done right and so so that's acute stress but the chronic stress is the issue that i want to talk about so.

I talk about this is you can break the stress success cycle. You and I can want success. You and I both serve that audience, success -driven professionals, unapologetic. I want you to succeed in all facets of life. But what if we said you don't have to work to the edge of stress and burnout to do it? What I'm actually hearing you need, Natalie, is a full life of things to do and purpose, hope and goals that are

in different buckets in your life, in different professional areas as a creative entrepreneur you are, for your family life. That's normal. So I want to normalize that.

Natalie Tysdal 

And so for people who say, I don't want to be bored. I don't want to not have goals. And that's what I'm hearing you say. It's not half a busy brain to have goals.

Dr. Romie 

No, no, you don't have to have a busy brain. So let's talk about what a busy brain is. You can have goals and achieve them without stress or a busy brain and say, look, I'm productive and I have time management techniques. So I know I need to prep for this interview for you today because it was on my calendar. That is technically a deadline, right? I can't put it off till next week and I wasn't going to handle it three weeks ago when I had other things going on, right?

when we heal a busy brain, we're productive and I don't have negative emotions with all the interviews I'm doing today and the difficult meetings that I've had to have today. That's the difference. I want to delineate that. I proudly have a full schedule. Could I give you an example of what that means?

My team members, Natalie, will joke with you, but they're kind of serious. I actually don't have one job. I have four jobs. I'm a chief wellness officer at Great Wolf Resorts for over 12 ,000 employees. So I work in the C -suite. Two, I'm a keynote speaker, which is a big part of our revenue and our business. Three, I'm out selling the book and the products and promotions and everything that go on with it. And four, my philanthropy work. I sit on the national board of directors for the Girl Scouts USA, which is a part -time job that you're unpaid for, right?

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah.

Dr. Romie

You have a schedule exactly like that too, don't you? And we're not even talking about our personal lives right now.

Natalie Tysdal 

That is listening to you say that and like, that's how do you handle all of that without having an overloaded busy brain?

Dr. Romie 

So busy brain, let's define it, is not about what's in my schedule. Busy brain is, do you have these three symptoms from chronic stress? Adult onset ADHD, ruminating anxiety, and insomnia, difficulty falling and staying asleep. So the routine goes like this. Okay, I'm gonna quickly listen to Natalie's podcast while I'm...

Going to get a latte, a venti latte. And I'm gonna tell Romy and Natalie it was a latte, but really it's for energy drinks just to get to lunch. Excessive amounts of caffeine. And when that fails, I went to the doctor and I got Adderall or Vyvanse for performance. But I'm low -key anxious all day long. So I keep eating or I keep taking the caffeine and then I wanna go home and I'm gonna stand on self -care and do the eight -step protocol Romy and Natalie talked about tonight, but I need a glass of wine or four to take the edge off.

And if it's not that, I'm gonna take a prescription sedative drug like a sleeping pill or anxiety pill that my doctor gave me. So you're on the stimulant sedative cycle. Up and down. And it's a chemical. And I'm not saying all caffeine is bad or all alcohol is bad, but if you're using it to cope and to succeed, then it's not serving you.

Natalie Tysdal

down and you need the stimulant to, yep, yep, to function.

Dr. Romie 

And so that's what a busy brain is. Those three things, adult onset ADD, anxiety and insomnia, and you're stuck on the stimulant sedative cycle. So we're going to break down in a second, ask me questions, the protocol quickly to heal it, and they'll get all the details in the book, but I will tell you the whole process here.

Natalie Tysdal

Okay, first, before we get to that, how common is it in your research? Is it the school teacher, the TV journalist, the doctor, the stay -at -home mom? Like, is it across the board? And I'm not just talking women, but...

Dr. Romie 

Yes, every industry, every adult in a post pandemic world, 17 ,000 people took the busy brain test, which is for free. We'll put it in your show notes on my website and social media. It's a neuropsychology test that measures how stress is impacting your brain and your body and your performance. And 82 % of people scored above a 30, which signals you have various stages of a busy brain. This is about the ratio when I go give keynote lectures across every industry.

that we find that about 70 to 80 percent of people in the audience have this. And by the way, this is also the data the World Health Organization finds out of the mental health crisis. This is what American Psychological Association is saying the rate of stress and burnout is in America. So this number is pretty consistent across multiple entities.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah. And, okay, so I like to go deep. We're gonna go 30 minutes, but I wanna go deep.

Dr. Romie 

Let's go. No, we're going to go deeper. I knew intuitively we were. I got time. I have all the time you need.

Natalie Tysdal 

So here's my big question. Why? My mom didn't struggle from this that I knew of. Is this the hustle culture that we've created of being busy makes you look better in social media, Instagram? Like, why?

Dr. Romie

Yeah. My dad was a busy small town doctor working incredible hours. But let me tell you what the difference is in today's world compared to when I was raised. For most people, there were clear boundaries between work and going home. And we weren't tethered to digital devices that have actually rewired our brain. I mean, those are two simplistic answers. But we dig deep because what happens with the chronic stress that we have today from not being able to

disconnect the way we used to and the different food choices we're making, we're going to dig into all of this, it's disrupting our circadian rhythm. And for most people, those problems weren't there before. And so that's a simplistic answer. But yes, it's a disruption of our circadian rhythm, that airport traffic control tower. And then the kind of we sacrifice sleep, most of us successful professionals. I mean, you said you used to get up at 2 a .m. I'll say At least that was a regular time to get up for you, right? For me, being a neurologist and taking care of epilepsy patients, I never knew when I was going to be woken up to go to the emergency room or handle an emergency over the phone, but it was nightly at different hours of the night, right? And so most people don't have a job like being a TV journalist or a doctor, but they're up all through the night, binge watching, getting on TikTok, a notification from the phone wakes them up.

Natalie Tysdal 

Yeah, and my guess is from a medical standpoint, when we think we're, and so many of us do it, we're winding down by looking at devices or just kind of zoning out that we're actually firing things in our brain that are not allowing us to sleep.

Dr. Romie 

Yeah. You know, it's something like this, Natalie, is every time I touch the phone here, just to turn on the screen, to look at a text message, to tap like on a social media post, I'm hitting the dopamine reward center in my brain. That's like a hit of crack or cocaine or like you're gambling. So then I think, oh, I feel good. I'm going to watch another tick tock and get another hit. Oh, no, I need to put it down. And then you go through withdrawal and you go through the valley. So then you pick it up again.

And it doesn't have to be social media or text messages. It could be work email, highly driven professionals like you and I were like, let me just knock out three more emails and I'll feel good to go to bed. So that's one thing, that dopamine peak and valley that we're doing. The second problem is, is all light from digital devices, a smart TV, a laptop. Remember the things that weren't there? I mean, I grew up with that massive tube TV. You remember that thing, you know

Dr. Romie 

We didn't have the blue lights that we do from multiple devices day and night. It goes into the back of our eye, goes back to the airport traffic control tower and elevates stress hormone levels. So even if you're watching a movie that's making you laugh or feel good and full of hope, you're still elevating those stress hormone levels late at night, right before bedtime. And it's saying, girl, Romy, Natalie, wake up your brain and start stressing and obsessing again. And you're just going to panic over Romy. You were on with Natalie and you didn't put enough oil in your hair and you've got Florida frizz going on for this amazing interview you've been waiting for weeks and that will hijack my sleep tonight.