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[00:00:00] Natalie: Hi everyone. It's Natalie. I'm so excited for today's episode. I am fortunate to have smart friends and smart colleagues. And my guest today is one of my very best friends. I can't wait for you to meet her. You know, that friend who maybe you don't talk to for a few months. And then when you finally see that. Three hours go by while you're talking. And even when it ends, you feel like you could just keep talking and catching up for so much longer. That's my friend, Jackie, the topic for today is really important because it's all about being all that we were created to be. In our relationships in our performance every day, also in our outlook on life, Jackie and singer uses her two decades of experience to break down how positive psychology, the science of human potential motivation, and what makes life worth living, how it can transform your life, your work, and your family.

[00:00:53] I am so proud of Jackie and her new book called spark brilliance. And I know that you're going to love what she's sharing with us today. Here's our.

[00:01:02] Jackie. I look forward to each of my interviews, but I have looked forward to this one so much because we've known each other for so long. And the book that you have written is can I just say brilliant? So tell us about it. Let's start off with sparking brilliance and what the book is.

[00:01:21] Jackie: The book is like my third child. As you played a huge part in it, Natalie, for about 10 years now, you were one of the first people that said to me, like, you need to write a book, you need to write a book. And I always have that voice in my head of you saying that to me for so long. And so it's been spinning for a long time. And finally it got to the point where I had like, you know, 20 years of experience and this, all these different experiences with, with clients and different things that worked and stood out and you know what I'm going to do it.

[00:01:53] And I'm going to put it together and realized, you know, I had a different angle than a lot of people did and started pulling the. Together with all of those pieces and realized that I really had a book. So here it's, it's ready and I'm super excited about it. And it's called spark brilliance and, you know, the subtitle is how the science of positive psychology will ignite, engage and transform your team.

[00:02:15] And it's really about how. It's a guide. It's a real guidebook. It's a playbook on what can you do to let your own spark and then use that spark to really ignite the brilliance and really like set off fireworks in those, around you to up-level happiness, fulfillment performance in all areas of your life.

[00:02:36] Natalie: We talk a lot about this concept and I know you've mentioned it before. You have to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you can help everyone else self. Taking a loving yourself first. Like we, talk a lot about this, but what does it really mean? Because I think it's easier to say that than it is to really do.

[00:02:54] I know, as a busy mom, you're the same or children are friends and we've been through this, like it's hard to take care of yourself when you're really.

[00:03:02] Jackie: Yeah. It feels like a luxury that we often don't have in the day and time is our greatest asset. It feels like, and we don't have enough of it. Right. And so it's often like an eye roll thing right.

[00:03:15] Where it's like, oh, you need to build in self care. It's like, well, when, how great. But what does that mean? Is that a five minute longer shower where nobody can bother you? Right. Or what does that look like? Yes, it is so important. And, and again, I think my angle on it is really around the brain and behavior reasons behind it with the first line and the last line of the book here, it begins with you, and it really is your light that does ignite those around you.

[00:03:44] And there's a whole concept called emotional contagion, which is really a fancy word for. we are like a good germ, right? We can spread our emotions to others and we do all the time. Not consciously. So in 33 milliseconds, you will instinctively pick up on my mood. Good, bad, ugly, joyful, whatever it is.

[00:04:05] Even strangers. There are studies that they put three strangers in a room for two minutes, never met each other before whoever has the dominant emotion has cascaded to the other two people. Same thing in an elevator. By the time you get to the 10th floor, whoever has the strongest emotion it rubs off. So there's this concept of how we show up will inevitably influence how other people feel, whether we like it or not.

[00:04:32] So with that, my, my reframe on this, you know, you know, it begins with you is. Life becomes easier, right? When other people around you are happier are in a better mindset, aren't in that negative or you know, pushback phase, as we all know with family members, when, when your kids come home from school and they're, they're grumpy and they're, you know, resistance or whatever those moods are, everything just shrinks.

[00:04:57] Right. Or. No. I know for me, if Rob, you know, isn't in a bad mood, like when he walks in and I'm in a good mood, right. And his bad mood might be stronger than my good mood and it just pulls it down. Right. Or vice versa if he walks in so happy and I was frustrated, it just lifts you. And so this idea of how do we lift ourselves?

[00:05:17] To then cascade that out to our families, to our teams, to people around us, because that, again, just perpetuates this virtuous cycle of positivity, which makes everything easier and everything works. Okay.

[00:05:32] Natalie: So let me ask you this, because I think about this a lot, especially with my kids. We've been through this by the way.

[00:05:38] I want to mention Jackie totaled it up because when I was doing the morning show she was coming in and doing, was it weekly? Bi-weekly, I can't remember weekly on parenting topics. You have a history with that. You've done amazing things with families and parents over 40 interviews. You've told me that we've we've done over the years.

[00:05:58] Is that right? So it's fun to get to talk a little bit longer, but what this makes me think of though, is when my kids come in the house and I'm already in like a stressed mode, they walk in and I'm very aware that I need to be in a good mood. I need to bring positive energy. Can you fake it? Is it okay to fake that so that everyone, because when you're not, but you know, you need to, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:06:23] Jackie: You know, I think that's a really great question. When it comes from a subconscious or unconscious mimicking or mirroring, I don't think you can fake what people pick up on from like the neuroscience perspective. However, the caveat there is. When you fake it for yourself, you can actually change your mood.

[00:06:46] Right? So just the act of smiling, elicits, you know, the, the neuro-transmitters and all these things in your brain that actually make you feel happier. So you can fake it for yourself to then move into a better space, which then cascades and is contagious to them. But just to build on that for a second.

[00:07:06] I don't think it means in my perspective that you always have to be happy because that again is a terrible trap that many of us myself included fall into. However, I think authenticity is really important. So to be able to say to your kids, if you're in a bad mood, like, you know what, I've had a really rough day, I just need a few minutes.

[00:07:27] I'm going to really try to get out of this space so I can be present for you in a really positive way. Right. So even just sharing that and owning that, Hey, it's not all perfect. It's not all great. And I'm not in that place right now is fair and fine. And in the meantime, trying to get into that place, knowing. However you show up will impact those around you.

[00:07:48] Natalie: Yeah. I think that's very, very valuable because there's a piece of me that doesn't want to fake it. Well, you know me because we've been through this, like the dentist part of me wants to say I'm really not having a great day, but I need to fake it, but can I bring my mood up if I do? So I like hearing that, that you, you can't really fake it. It's okay. To be honest about it, but that you, you can turn your mood around. By just smiling or faking it a little bit so that you can

[00:08:16] Jackie: bring yourself up. Do you know the best way to turn your mood around? And this has proven is gratitude. So gratitude in the moment is the most powerful way to actually change your brain.

[00:08:28] it's neuroplasticity. So. Practicing gratitude literally changes the structure of your brain. So in the moment, what I've found is when you're stressed, when you're frustrated and you want to move out of that space, thinking of three things you're grateful for in that moment and not the routine, like I'm grateful.

[00:08:48] I have a house I'm grateful. I have food for lunch. I'm grateful that, you know, whatever it's. In this moment, having to think about it, like I'm grateful that, you know, my husband took the kids to school today and it allowed me time to get X done, or I'm grateful that the person held the door open for me at Starbucks this morning, or I'm grateful that the kids got off to school without, you know, forgetting anything, you know, anything it is that is specific to that day, because what you're doing is you're going into that part of your brain.

[00:09:17] Thinking of gratitude and you can't experience stress and gratitude at the same time. So you're moving out of it. And you're starting to build that muscle of how do I pull myself out of it. So when you experience that feeling of gratitude, that's positive, right? It's the most, one of the most positive feelings you can have.

[00:09:35] You are no longer in that moment in that stressed out space. So you're practicing building that muscle moving away. And that is the quickest, most effective way to move out of a bad mood and into a better. I love that.

[00:09:47] Natalie: Okay. So let's go back to the book and sparking brilliance or spark brilliance, right? Spark brilliance. And so we're talking about helping ourselves first and it all starts with you that you are the leader of your life. I know that's what you say. Let's move on to the next step, then the next stage. How else can we, we help ourselves first? How can we then make those around us, including our families.

[00:10:12] Are a nonprofit groups are companies, how can we make those people better?

[00:10:17] Jackie: You know, the first thing I always talk about is a mindset shift from the golden rule to the platinum rule. And I know you've heard me talk about this now for my. 10 years. So, you know, we all know the golden rule, treat others how we wish to be treated.

[00:10:31] And, and that's, that's great for larger society things mainly to tell us what not to do. Right? So to kind of general rules, but who's to say in real life that you want to be treated the same way I want to be treated. Like why would I assume that you have the same needs and desires that I have? And when you look at family members, Most of the time.

[00:10:52] That's not the case. We don't want the same things. We don't need support the same way. Right? We have different desires and different ways that we need to be communicated with and different things that make us happy. So shifting into the platinum rule, which is treat others how they wish to be treated is the quickest mindset shift to realize.

[00:11:11] What do you need, you know, ask these questions. Don't assume it's so easy to assume. Cause we have one lens, right? It's only ours. The only lens we have on the world is our own lens. So it makes sense that we assume that everybody needs what we need and that people need help the way that we need help, but that's not the case.

[00:11:29] And when you just have that simple shift in work in your non-profits with your friendships, with your parents, with your in-laws, with your kids, with your siblings, anyone in your life. To be able to shift to, I wonder what your lens is, right. I wonder how you need to be communicated with what makes you happy when you're stuck, what helps you?

[00:11:48] Right. And knowing that makes all the difference to create meaningful and effective relationships and really honoring the differences and then being able to leverage the strengths. as you know, I know we know this about each other. Relationships are messy, all relationships are messy. And so. My goal, working with people is how do we eliminate some of the mess, right?

[00:12:09] How do we simplify some of these things that can be simplified so that we find more joy and more ease in these relationships? You know? And, and that's just the. How

[00:12:20] Natalie: much of that. can you talk through like, so in your companies or I'm thinking with my family or at school as a teacher, how much of it is sitting down with someone and saying, how can I support you?

[00:12:34] How can I learn about you? My family has benefited from working with you and knowing what our motivators are, what our strengths are. I don't know if you get into that in the book. I love that, What I'm really trying to find out is how do we find those things in other people so that I know what they need versus what I think they need.

[00:12:52] Jackie: Yeah. Ask biggest thing is asking on the end of each chapter of the book. I have a self evaluation. And next steps to use with your team and your team could be your family, right? It could be any team, any group of people. Um, So every chapter has a theme to it, of something to do some action to take.

[00:13:10] And, and it ends with this self evaluation and next steps. So it has some guidelines of questions in there, but for instance, like you were saying, yes, absolutely. Ask if you don't know, ask how do you need to be supported? how did that land when I said that, is there something that I could have done differently here, you know, and asking those questions even in your marriage.

[00:13:31] you know, when I shared that with you, is there a way that I could have done that, that felt. Right. Even after hard conversations and being able to say it back, like, no, I understand what you, what you're sharing with me. I would have a better experience if you shared it this way, just being able to say, you know, this is what I prefer, you know, I understand your perspective might be different or your way might be different.

[00:13:55] And even for example, my instinct is to fix it. I'm a solution focused. Don't like to sit in a negative space person. So when. One of my boys comes home in a complaining mode, right? Oh, my teachers hate me in this socks and this happened and this best. And I'm just like, really? Does everybody know? Does everybody, all your teachers, you know, I get into this almost like cynical and then move out of it.

[00:14:18] Well, let's do this or let's try. And that doesn't help either of us. Right. Cause I'm impatient and that's not what either of them need. And so asking, like what would be helpful for you right now? It's like, I just need to share this with. Okay, then I'm going to sit and listen, even if it's not a natural space for me.

[00:14:37] And in my head, I might be running through scenarios of how we can fix it. That's not what he needs. Right. So just listening is what he needs asking in the moment. What would be helpful for you right now? What can I do for you that might make this a little bit better? Right or a little

[00:14:52] Natalie: bit less hard. Yeah.

[00:14:54] I love that. Am. I think a lot of us as moms are, are very solution oriented. We want to fix the problems of our husbands, our kids, whatever that is, but fixing it actually sometimes is telling them you're not capable. So I'm going to do it for you. And that's not. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine as a leader I know you work with a lot of businesses, business leaders, corporate leaders, it's kind of the exact same thing.

[00:15:21] You don't want to just fix it for everyone.

[00:15:23]

[00:16:40] Jackie: Yeah. And you don't have time. Yeah. Right. It's you don't have time because then you're doing everybody else's job. So it's really about learning what sparks everybody on the team, where are they most fulfilled? What is their zone? What's that sweet spot. Right.

[00:16:54] And honoring this cognitive diversity on the team, which is a really big thing. And we know. There are so many studies around when you bring in people with different perspectives, it's a multiplier effect. And again, you can apply that to families as well as businesses they've done study after study in businesses to show that cognitively diverse teams perform sometimes a hundred percent.

[00:17:14] Better than teams that have similar shared perspectives. So there's some crazy stats on that and you can apply any of this back home that when we get frustrated of like, gosh, I just don't get you. Or I don't understand how you see it this way or why you're not, blah-blah-blah fill in the blank, but realizing, okay, what is your lens on this?

[00:17:33] I want to understand how you're seeing this and how do we leverage that to be even better. As a family and same thing with a work team, right? How do we bring these different unique perspectives together to get a richer perspective, to make better decisions, to have like more layers of input. And it is definitely one plus one is way greater than two when you build that right.

[00:17:56] Yeah.

[00:17:57] Natalie: What is your overall goal with this project? With this book versus the many things you've done working with families, with individuals, with teams, what did you want to accomplish most with this new big

[00:18:10] Jackie: project? No, that's a great question. What I want to accomplish most. I think the timing is really appropriate, you know, with all the stuff with the pandemic.

[00:18:21] And, you know, if you picture a number line right. With zero in the middle and the positive numbers to the right and negative numbers still left, many of us have been living in the negative numbers. Right, right. We often see the goal is to get back to zero, right? And that's our baseline, that's our own individual C level.

[00:18:38] It's like, okay, this is a bad thing. How do we get back to this, this space where we exist? My goal is to say, we don't want to just be at sea level. We don't want to get back to baseline and fix what's wrong. How about we move into these positive numbers where there is this, this endless potential. That we can move into and moving in that direction, instead of saying like neutral is best, right.

[00:19:02] Let's just get back to neutral and call it good. Right? Let's not, let's just be not sad. Let's be not sick. Right. How about let's move into this, this thriving side and this, this side where. incredible things can happen. And I feel like we've become a little complacent and that's a general comment, but there's a lot of complacency around because things have been so negative.

[00:19:25] Let's just get back to this neutral zone. And I don't think that's a good goal. I say, you know, why, why stop at neutral? Let's move into this side. And there are so many action steps that are easy to do. To move into that positive zone where great things happen and great things are possible and people are happier.

[00:19:46] And so that's the kind of the purpose is how do we spread that?

[00:19:49] Natalie: Yeah. I love that. That it's, it's great. And yet I want you to give us some more actionable things, so we know staying positive, even if you have to fake it a little bit, to turn that around, I heard you say sometimes just the smile. You know, even if you're faking that a little bit, that's okay.

[00:20:06] It gets you to that better place. So give us some more actionable tips for getting out of just negative or neutral and into that positive.

[00:20:15] Jackie: Well, so gratitude for sure. Okay. So gratitude. And just since we already talked about that, one of the greatest things that I've ever found is there's so much research around.

[00:20:25] This is just naming three things you're grateful for. And there are studies that show in 21 days, if you just do this one thing for 21 days, it takes, you know, one minute, you know, at the end of the day, three things we're grateful for. It can make somebody who is a default negative. Into default neutral, a default neutral thinker into default positive, simple, simple things.

[00:20:48] Three grateful. Today we do this as a family. We do it every night as a family. We've done it since Simon who's 15 now was two and, and every single night. And if somebody is not here, we texted our gratefuls and we share as a family at the end of the day. And the reason that. I think it's so powerful to do is as a mom, you know, nighttime is often the most stressful time of the day.

[00:21:09] It's, everything's moving quickly and it's bedtime and what we didn't get done. And there's usually a lot of stress around bedtime. And also when our mind starts spinning around what we didn't do, what went wrong, what we missed, what the next day is going to look like, how do we prepare for it? So that's when.

[00:21:26] And to pause as a family and share three things you were individually grateful for from that day. Not only do you learn some great things about each other's day, but you all as collectively move from potentially a stressed out mindset into this positive place together to end the day and often recall things that you might never remember unless you took that time.

[00:21:47] So that to me is super powerful. Another thing that there's so much research on. I actually have a whole chapter called play, which is about infusing levity and humor. And in the workplace, there's tons of studies on that in life. There's tons of studies on that. And when you have something that's light and humorous and funny all of the.

[00:22:08] Hormones in your brain that are positive, that are about connection that are dopamine, all of the good hormones, oxytocin, which is your bonding hormone. All of those things are elicited when you laugh. And so that reduces stress. It actually preempts you to reduce stress in the future. And it brings you into this positive place where connection happens.

[00:22:30] Enjoy happens, right? And are, are feeling good. Hormones happened. Any time you can do something that brings humor into the day, whether it's even watching clips of you know, comedians or doing something funny, like watching something funny as a family, or even having like a text thread with funny memes that you send each other in a family or with your friends just infusing, that can make a huge difference also in even just how you show up and it continues and it lasts.

[00:22:58] And then I'll oh, you want me to share another one?

[00:23:00] Natalie: Yes, I'm loving all

[00:23:01] Jackie: the best yet. Another one. I have a chapter called win, so this is about momentum and motivation. So. What happens is, is when you have a win bigger, small it, you get a hit, hit a dopamine, which is your feel good hormone.

[00:23:19] And what happens is dopamine wants more dopamine. Dopamine says I want more of whatever that just was. We often hear it in response to. Drug addiction, alcohol sugar, right? Like, Ooh, I want more, I want more. So we hear it in bat in a bad way, but dopamine is agnostic. It's not good or bad. It's about whatever that thing is that felt.

[00:23:42] You want more of it? So motivation is dopamine in positive use, right? So what we want to do is create this positive momentum in our lives, right? Because one progress is the number one indicator of happiness. So we want to create positive movement in our lives. Feeling stuck is something that we've all felt a lot of.

[00:24:00] I believe the past couple of years, There's not much happiness when you feel stuck. So we want to move out of that place. So creating wins bite-size wins is one of the best ways to create this series. And this cycle of these little dopamine hits of wanting more. Oftentimes, we wait for something big to happen to celebrate it.

[00:24:22] So when you can take something big and break it down into bite size pieces that you can celebrate along the way, it's like, oh, this happened, we accomplished this. We did this, whatever it is, it could be really small. It could be, if you're doing a project at your house, like breaking it down, like we finished the first wall on both.

[00:24:39] Sometimes you have. Look far, you know, far into something to find the wind, but when you do that and you celebrate it, it creates this hit, and then you want more and you want more, and it becomes this progress loop that automatically increases your happiness, which again, makes everybody happier. Right? So finding those wins and finding collective wins is, is really important.

[00:25:03] To do, and it just creates a whole different momentum shift. It sounds

[00:25:07] Natalie: to me also like setting those goals and it reminds me of like my to-do list. And when I make my to-do list too long or too lofty, I'm not getting any of those dopamine hits because I feel, I feel guilty. So setting tasks and to do lists that are achievable so that you get that on a regular

[00:25:26] Jackie: basis.

[00:25:27] Achievable. And even if you had to do list, that was super long, breaking it into two categories. Right. So you can finish that category. If you break it into like house kids, work errands, whatever it is. And just be like, I got all that done. That's a win. Right. And it doesn't mean you celebrate by like taking a vacation, but even if it's like, yes, I did it right.

[00:25:49] Just acknowledging the celebration, calling it out. Just that is a big. Yeah,

[00:25:56] Natalie: well, some great tips. I love the three. Do you have another one that you want to give us a, an actionable thing people can do today to feel better to make those around them better?

[00:26:06] Jackie: One more actionable thing. I'm going to give So much of this book is about finding your own spark, right?

[00:26:10] And then helping others find their spark and by spark, I mean that sweet spot between what you're good at and what you love. Oftentimes we're good at things, but don't love them. And we spend time doing these things that are actually draining, even if we're good at them. Right. So it's finding that sweet spot.

[00:26:27] So one really simple thing I do that that would be possibly great for anybody to do is look at your calendar for the. And just notice your physical reaction to the different things on it and the things that you feel like, ah, right. You get that pit in your stomach, right? The things were, color-coded like put a color, you hate color coded on your calendar.

[00:26:50] Things that are neutral. Totally fine, but a neutral color things that you're like, Ooh, I have that. I'm excited color code that. And your favorite color. And what you start to see is what are those things that light you up? What are those things that drain you? And do you have to do all of them? Can you delegate some of them?

[00:27:06] Can you outsource some of them? Can your kids do some of them? Because the things that bring you down are often things that bring other people. Right. Cause we're all not the same. Remember the platinum rule. So looking at how do I do more of the things that light me up and what are those threads between them?

[00:27:20] So say you pick the color yellow for all the things you love. Like, is there a theme between all of these yellows in my week? Maybe it's about doing something with other people. Maybe it's something that you're actually out of the house. Maybe it's something when you're home and doing something nesting, you know, whatever it is for you, there might be a thread to recognize about yourself.

[00:27:40] This is something special about me and how do I do more?

[00:27:43] Natalie: And it might surprise people to know those in your family or those in your team that they enjoy different things, different things do like them up, maybe for one person. It's the technology where for another it's like, Ugh, I can't do the technology, but really identifying those things with all those around you, in whatever group you're in, helps that team work better together.

[00:28:07] Jackie: Yes, absolutely. So those are all like different things to try. the biggest thing to walk away from is ask questions. The people you care about and ask them of yourself too. So asking, you know, how would I have preferred to hear that? What does a win look like to me? What does it feel like when I'm in my happy place where I feel peaceful inside?

[00:28:30] You know, how do I prefer feedback from somebody if it's critical, right? Like asking yourself these questions and asking around how do I want support when I feel like I've had a bad. What does that look like for me? What does that look like for you? So don't just ask everybody else, also ask yourself these questions, because it's really important for you to know, and for you to share that with others.

[00:28:50] Yeah.

[00:28:50] Natalie: Um, So think people who are listening have some really good things they can apply starting today, but if they want more information, I know the book is loaded with this information, your website give us that so people can follow

[00:29:04] Jackie: you. In fact, Oh, great. So the book is sparked brilliance. It's on Amazon and um, on March 22nd.

[00:29:13] So it'll be there. My website is in singer insights mouthful, but. Last name and then insights.com. So there's information there. And then Jackie had, and singer insights is my email. Anybody can email me as well. And I'm just excited to share this information and get any feedback from anybody. If they try it, they try any of these things.

[00:29:33] I'd love to hear how it worked. I love hearing that feedback in the stories and what worked, what didn't, what. You know, just, just everybody's individual think different things land differently. So whatever resonates with people is what they should

[00:29:45] Natalie: stick with. Well, thank you for sharing all of this. I'm so excited for the book and I'm just excited to see people who Excel in what they do best and you are so good at what you do.

[00:29:56] And finally getting it here into this book. I know it's going to be the first. Right after you birthed your third child, the book being your third child. I hope that there are many to come because you have so much to share. So thank you, Jackie. It's great to talk to

[00:30:12]Jackie: you. Thanks Natalie.