180: Getting Rid of Holiday Clutter

Transcript

Natalie Tysdal (00:01.689)

Katie, this is the time of year where we need to be very mindful of stuff because it can be overwhelming, especially right after the holidays when you're trying to put everything away and organize it. So let's get right into Christmas, the holidays, and staying mindful of being minimalist.

Katy (00:23.393)

I think there is this interesting feeling that comes up for a lot of us this time of year, especially if you've tried to declutter, if you have been decluttering or organizing and wanting to simplify your life, how the sad and unfortunate reality is sometimes with...

Natalie Tysdal (00:25.323)

I it's feeling.

you

Natalie Tysdal (00:35.405)

You know, the style.

Katy (00:38.891)

traditional holiday traditions or how a lot of us were raised is it comes with this massive influx of stuff. And some of this is really great things. You we can't knock it all like, you know, gifts, some of them we want, some of them we don't. Toys if we have young younger kids, you know, holiday decor and all of these things can really make our homes.

Natalie Tysdal (00:39.309)

traditional holiday tradition.

Natalie Tysdal (00:46.38)

Yeah.

Katy (01:01.251)

feel stressed. The reality isn't, I know I've shared this with you before, but it's a good reminder for all of us is there was a particular study done many years ago and what they found is there is a direct correlation between the amount of stuff in your home and your stress levels. And so again, even though these are good things, a lot of them, the Christmas tree, the stockings, the decor, the stuff we do want.

Natalie Tysdal (01:15.278)

and your stress levels. So again, even though these are good things, a lot of them, the Christmas tree, the stocking, the decor, the stuff we do want, some of us moms, women, people can get really overwhelmed and more triggered and we need more patience, even though we're trying to embrace the business. So I think keeping that in mind, for me it's really about finding a balance for your season of life, what you're willing to dedicate, you know, doing and

Katy (01:24.793)

Some of us moms, women, people can get really overwhelmed and more triggered and lose our patience, even though we're trying to embrace the goodness. So I think keeping that in mind, and for me, it's really about finding a balance for your season of life, what you're willing to dedicate doing and preserving from your traditions and making that feel like more of a harmonious balance. So I think a great place to start as we're heading into the holiday season could just be, do the holiday.

Natalie Tysdal (01:44.503)

preserving from your traditions and making that feel like more of a harmonious balance. So I think a great place to start as we're heading into the holiday season could just be, you know, do the holidays always have to look like this? And one question I always ask myself every single year is, you know, at this time last year, was I stressed out about anything in particular that I have, you know, that's in my control to change this year? Yeah, yeah. A tradition too overwhelming is travel too overwhelming right now.

Katy (01:54.799)

always have to look like this. And one question I always ask myself every single year is, you know, at this time last year was I stressed out about anything in particular that I have, you know, that's in my control to change this year. Is a tradition too overwhelming? Is travel too overwhelming right now? Maybe instead of baking cookies from scratch, I go buy dough and then just still have the decorating the cookies with the kids, but it's simpler for me. Maybe it's less decorations. Maybe it's less spending. Maybe instead of buying 15 gifts per

Natalie Tysdal (02:12.449)

maybe instead of baking cookies from scratch, go buy dough and then still have to decorate the cookies with the kids, but it's simpler for me. Maybe it's less decoration, maybe it's less spending, maybe instead of buying.

15 gifts per child is eight or six. I think having those regular reflection points and evaluations could really guide you in the direction that could be a good starting point for simplifying the holidays and reducing the stress. And again, we want to enjoy the ooey gooey feelings of the holiday season and stuff and clutter are a really big distraction from that. Well, and we want to be sure that we are teaching our kids that the holidays aren't necessarily about stuff. Stuff is fun.

Katy (02:24.625)

child it's eight or six. So I think having those regular reflection points and evaluations can really guide you in the direction that could be a good starting point for simplifying the holidays and reducing the stress. And again we want to enjoy like the ooey gooey feelings of the holiday season and stuff and clutter are really big distraction from that.

Natalie Tysdal (02:53.069)

Gifts are fun, but if we're giving all of that and we're making it about that, then they're going to learn those same things. So creating the traditions. I have to admit, like I was, I was out at the store and I haven't put up lights or anything yet. I'm itching to, but I saw things that we have just moved last year. So we, we decluttered a lot. A lot of the stuff that I had put out every year, I don't have anymore, but I was at the store and I started seeing like

placemats and candles and these things that I kind of just got rid of. And I had this moment of, that would be, nope, I'm not going to do it. Like I have to remind myself it's not about the stuff. And I just got rid of stuff. And so how do you advise people in getting through that mental just habit really? Yeah.

Katy (03:40.267)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, a lot of us buy just mindlessly, right? Or we're so, I mean, think about the exposure of advertisements we see. I might hop on Instagram to post something about decluttering, and then I immediately see an influencer promoting a really cute purse. I'm like, ooh, I like that. And then I see an ad for a necklace. I'm like, that's really cute. So it's like, it's like, right.

Natalie Tysdal (04:01.502)

How do you stop yourself? How do you stop? Because you don't even realize you're doing it.

Katy (04:07.478)

I, it's, the, question is complex, it's nuanced, but I think one great kind of 30,000 foot view perspective on this is to understand that identity drives behavior. Our identities, and we have multiple identities, right? Mother, entrepreneur, whatever, right? You name it, whatever your identities are, these drive what we buy, what we think we should buy.

Natalie Tysdal (04:08.492)

So the question is complex it's nuanced but I think one great kind of 30,000 foot view perspective on this is to Understand that identity drives behavior. I did our identity is we have multiple identities, right? mother entrepreneur Whatever, right you name it. Whatever your identities are these drives

what we think we should buy, the way we want to be perceived by other people, mean everything. And so from a consumption standpoint, that's a big factor. And a lot of it is subconscious, right? It's not things that necessarily live on the surface that we're aware of. But when I became to declutter, when I started to declutter and realized I needed to pull the weed out by the root instead of chopping it at surface level, because I was a massive, like every day I bought something, every single day online, was like five by

Katy (04:34.106)

the way we want to be perceived by other people. mean everything.

And so from a consumption standpoint, that's a big factor. And a lot of it is like, it's subconscious, right? It's not things that necessarily live on the surface that we're aware of. But when I became to declutter, when I started to declutter and realized I needed to pull the weed out by the root instead of chopping it at surface level, cause I was a massive, like every day I bought something, every single day online, I was like, bye, bye, bye. I was triggered emotionally by stress and anxiety. And I still get stressed and anxious sometimes, right?

Natalie Tysdal (05:01.1)

I was very triggered emotionally by stress and anxiety. And I still get stressed and anxious sometimes, right? But over the years, tapping into my identity as a simplifier has really helped curb some of that. Again, I still have to practice really like practical things, whether that's, if I see an ad, can just like a mantra I kind of have in places. That person is beautiful, it's cute.

Katy (05:08.494)

But over the years, tapping into my identity as a simplifier has really helped curb some of that. Again, I still have to practice really like practical things, whether that's, hey, if I see an ad, I can just like a mantra I kind of have in places. That purse is beautiful, it's cute. I'm gonna appreciate it from a distance. I don't need that because guess what? I already have two or three purses I love.

Natalie Tysdal (05:28.588)

I'm going to appreciate it from a distance. don't need that because guess what? already have two or three persons I love. coming to, because with social media and advertising specifically, they know what they are doing. They study human psychology. They know that they want us to compare ourselves. And as the quote says, comparison is the thief of joy. I my kids this all the time now. I need to be saying that too. And I remind myself of that and fear of missing out.

Katy (05:34.351)

So coming to, because with social media and advertising specifically, they know what they are doing. They study human psychology. They know that they want us to compare ourselves. And as the quote says, comparison is the thief of joy. I tell my kids this all the time, who are eight and nine. Comparison, know? Yes, and I remind myself of that and fear of missing out, right? That scarcity, like, it's only on sale now, heading into the holidays when everything's on sale, but really nothing is.

Natalie Tysdal (05:58.284)

Like, it's only on sale now, heading into the holidays when everything is on sale. That's a dangerous one. I know. The Black Friday stuff, even the airline sales. I get that and I go, I should be going, no. Yeah. Yes. It's so tantalizing. And it's like, we all love a deal. You can't take that out of people. And so it's kind of having your identity.

Katy (06:04.418)

I've noticed a new trend. Yes!

Katy (06:12.25)

Yes. Yes. It's so tantalizing and it's like, we all love a deal. You can't take that out of people. And so it's kind of having your identity and your North Star. Like when we have our North Star or, know, a great way to put this is like, what's your big why for wanting to simplify? That can be like your grounding piece in those moments when your prefrontal cortex is hijacked, right? That's your like,

Natalie Tysdal (06:30.795)

your big why for wanting to simplify that can be like your grounding piece in those moments when your prefrontal cortex and hijack right that's your like logic planning prioritizing I'm a simplifier I don't buy stuff I just declutter that but then it's like I want that I want to feel a certain way because when we buy things we're buying beliefs emotions stories aspirational identities like it can go pretty deep sometimes yes it is just cute

Katy (06:40.703)

command center where it's like logic, planning, prioritizing. I'm a simplifier. I don't buy stuff. I just declutter that. But then it's like, ooh, I want that. Ooh, I want to feel a certain way. Because when we buy things, we're buying beliefs, emotions, stories, aspirational identities. Like it can go pretty deep. Sometimes, yes, it is just cute. dialing it back and going, so identity and big why can be really big grounding techniques.

Natalie Tysdal (07:00.425)

But you know, dialing it back and going, so identity and big white can be a really big grounding technique. Let's talk about gifting and simplifying the gifting. So I have kids a little bit older than you. You're really in that, you're in that young stage, the fun stage, the Santa stage, like, but let's talk about different levels of gifting. For me, it's kids who don't live here.

they're grown and flown, right? Whatever that term is. So college and beyond. And one wants stuff and likes to have more stuff. And the other's like, I don't want stuff, mom. I don't. But can you give us at different stages of life ideas for gifting and simplifying the holidays?

Katy (07:45.893)

Some of my, so I wanna share five different categories that I love for clutter-free gifts. So the first one, and this is a personal favorite. And again, you have to play in and customize these to the personality that you're gifting to. And you also, while I'm talking through these, Natalie, think about like if they inspire you to create your own wishlist, you You're simplifying still. So my favorite as a mom in my season of life is time-saving gifts.

Natalie Tysdal (07:53.311)

So the first one, and this is a personal favorite, and again, you have to play in and customize these to the personality that you're gifting to. also, while I'm talking through these now, I think about if they inspire you to your own wish list. You're simplifying still. So my favorite as a mom in my season of life is time-saving gifts. So these are gifts that really lighten your load by cutting down on regular tasks, everyday tasks.

Katy (08:14.074)

So these are gifts that really lighten your load by cutting down on regular tasks, everyday tasks, and you get more time back. I want more time. That's my love language. So perhaps it's a gift card or a short-term subscription for like a meal delivery service, especially your girls are off, right? They're young. I didn't like to cook when I was young. I still don't. So it hits that bucket too. If that would be helpful for them. House cleaning services. I mean,

Natalie Tysdal (08:21.482)

And you get more time back. I want more time. That's my love language. So Perhaps it's a gift card or a short-term subscription for like a meal delivery service Especially your girls are off right there young. I didn't like to cook when I was young I still don't so it hits that bucket to helpful for them house cleaning services I mean, I would love that babysitting pet care things like that anything again that's gonna lighten our load. Yeah

Katy (08:43.972)

I would love that. Babysitting, pet care, things like that, anything again, that's gonna lighten their load. Experience gifts is one that probably gets the most, it's like the biggest buzzword, I think, as far as a clutter-free item, but I think people really love these and me too, because it helps create those lasting memories through experiences. So again, these are promoting connection, quality time.

Natalie Tysdal (08:50.314)

Experience gifts is one that probably gets the most It's like the biggest buzzword I think as far as the clutter free item, but it I think people really love days and me too because it helps create those lasting memories Yeah experiences. So again, these are promoting connection quality time Concert or event tickets. I mean you don't have to get like your daughter Taylor's ticket. I'm sure she's that I love that she's with me, but it could be something more simple and you know

Katy (09:08.312)

concert or event tickets. I mean, you don't have to get like your daughter Taylor Swift ticket. I'm sure she'd appreciate that and love that if she's a Swifty, but it could be something more simple and you know, local to your area. Classes or workshops, local or online can be really great. Travel adventures, things like that. And if you're not taking the adventure together or taking it soon, you could create a little homemade like voucher that's in a card that they open. So don't think that because some of these things aren't necessarily physical or

Natalie Tysdal (09:18.602)

local to your area. Classes or workshops, or online can be really great. Travel adventures, things like that. And if you're not taking the adventure together or taking it soon, you could create a little homemade like voucher that's in a card that they open. So don't think that because some of these things aren't necessarily physical or come wrapped in a box that it's not meaningful to the person. Sure. many people I talk to who are worried to talk to family members.

Katy (09:37.935)

you know, come wrapped in a box, that it's not meaningful to the person. I can't tell you how many people I talk to who are worried to talk to family members, where it's like, we're stuck in this gifting mentality and it's like, I buy you something, you buy me something. And it's just rote and kind of automatic, but finances this time of year, people get, it's so much pressure. And so I find that when my students are able to just broach the conversation with their families and say, what if we did...

Natalie Tysdal (09:47.325)

where it's like we're stuck in this gifting mentality and it's like I buy you something, you buy me something and it's just rope and kind of automatic. Finances this time of year, people get so much pressure and so I find that when my students are able to just broach the conversation with their families and say what if we did what if we had gifting a little bit different this year? What if we all did one family gift and you know we had this experience together, we went to a concert.

Katy (10:05.328)

what if we did gifting a little bit different this year? What if we all did one family gift and we had this experience together, we went to a concert or went into town and saw the lights together and just simplified gifting. And every single time my student comes back to me and goes, it was so well received. And the family members go, my God, I'm so glad. I've been so overwhelmed and stressed about this. I'm so glad you brought this up, thank you. We worry, like am I failing my family for not keeping up with the tradition or?

Natalie Tysdal (10:13.609)

into town and saw the lights together and just simplified gifting and every single time my student comes back to me and it was still well received and the family members go I'm so glad I'm so overwhelmed and stressed about this I'm so glad you brought this up thank you you know we worried like am I failing my family for not keeping up with the tradition yeah maybe I should do this just because we've always done it but you'd be surprised so those are

Katy (10:34.586)

Maybe I should do this just because we've always done it, but you'd be surprised. those are two digital gifts are also a great one. Consumable gifts would be anything that would be consumed over time. Those are great bath bombs, gourmet treats. I mean, I love like charcuterie stuff. I'm here for it. So anyone that gives me cheese, I'm like a dog. Like if you give me cheese once, I'm like your best. I'm like, she gave me cheese. I love her.

Natalie Tysdal (10:39.933)

to digital gifts are also a great one. Consumable gifts would be anything that we use over time. are great bath bombs or main treats. I mean, love like charcuterie stuff. I'm here for it. So. Me too. I'm like a dog. if you give me cheese ones, I'm like your best. I'm like a hundred percent. Yes, I agree. And then you've got your like DIY homemade stuff, which we gave for more of the people who are into that. Certainly not me, but.

Katy (11:01.197)

And then you've got your like DIY homemade stuff, which would be for more of the people who are into that, certainly not me, but it can feel meaningful. And if you have the time and energy to do that, it really does, you that thought is what goes a long way. So those are five different categories we can kind of get creative with and customize to the receiver.

Natalie Tysdal (11:07.578)

It can feel meaningful and if you have the time and energy to do that, it really does. That thought is what goes a long way. So there's five different categories you can kind of get creative with and customize to the receiver. When it comes to approaching this as a family, let's start with your immediate family. And you've got kids and you want to change things. You're like, want to be about more than just the pile of gifts that the kids walk down to.

How do you, as a family, say this is what we're gonna do this year to make it meaningful and without feeling like you're disappointing them?

Katy (11:43.077)

Right, you don't want to feel like it's restrictive and we're losing the magic and all these things. For me, it's not just one conversation. It's the initial conversation, whether that's with your partner and your kids or your extended family. But we need to address the elephant in the room, right? And for some of us, it's the expense of the holiday. Some of us, it's just the chaos from the clutter and the added pressure and all of that. And just being...

Natalie Tysdal (11:49.481)

For me, it's not just one conversation. It's the initial conversation, whether that's with your partner and your kids or your extended family. But we need to address the elephant in the room. And for some of us, it's the expense of the holiday. Some of us, it's just the chaos from the clutter and the added pressure and all of that. And just being vulnerable, really, and saying, listen, I've noticed that

Katy (12:11.663)

vulnerable really and saying listen I've noticed that you know some of the best parts of the holiday season I'm not even able to enjoy because I'm so overwhelmed with all the clutter and mess after and I'm the one that's responsible for that in this home so what are some ways that we can simplify the holidays where me mom can enjoy it a little bit more and also you know consider how it's impacting other people maybe your partner doesn't feel or see the clutter and doesn't

Natalie Tysdal (12:17.001)

some of the best parts of the holiday season. I'm not even able to enjoy because I'm so overwhelmed with all the clutter and that factor. And I'm the one that's responsible for that in this home. So what are some ways that we can simplify the holidays where me, mom, can enjoy it little bit more and also, you know, consider how it's impacting other people. Maybe your partner doesn't feel or see the clutter, doesn't have that negative impact as much as you, but maybe your partner really is like paying a credit card bill and that stresses them

Katy (12:38.681)

have that negative impact as much as you, but maybe your partner really is like paying the credit card bill and that stresses them out. So bringing in these different pieces that are relatable and resonate with your family can help them understand the context to why you want to simplify versus being like, wait, I'm not getting as much stuff as I normally do. Like, well, hold the breaks, you know? And so that's a great place to start.

Natalie Tysdal (12:45.496)

So bringing in these different pieces that are relatable and resonate with your family can help them understand the context to why you want to simplify. Versus being like, wait, I'm not getting as much stuff as I normally do. Like, hold the break, you know? And so that's a great place to start. then you also need to bring in the raisins for the season. And so we all tend to get wrapped up in the consumer act.

Katy (13:04.813)

And then you also need to bring in the reason for the season. And so we all tend to get wrapped up in the consumer aspect of the holiday season. That's how it's fed to us. And we need to keep those conversations going. It doesn't stop after the holidays. And it can come up in natural conversations. like I said, comparison is the thief of joy was one example. I tell my kids that all the time. And I know I will tell them that.

Natalie Tysdal (13:13.455)

It is yeah

Katy (13:31.686)

Christmas Day when they find out their best friend gets a Nintendo Switch and they didn't, you know? It's a lifelong thing we need to help instill and encourage and model, but we have to start with just being honest and see where that takes us.

Natalie Tysdal (13:41.221)

But we have to start with just being honest and see where that takes us. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to our kids giving us gifts, I found that they feel like we have to reciprocate and I have to come up with something and I don't need stuff. One year I told my kids, I want your take on this. Like, I don't want anything you didn't make for me. Because now I have a lot of like made picture frames and little photos, which is fine. I keep a box, a mom box.

How do you tell your kids that? mean, was my dad growing up always said, I never want a card you purchased. If it's a card, you got to make it. And I loved that because it was fun to make it, and I felt a little more pride in that. But other ideas maybe in that regard. I think whether it's saying, hey, I would really prefer a handwritten card versus a card you pick up at Walmart. Or it's saying something like, hey,

Katy (14:12.637)

Mm-hmm.

Katy (14:26.493)

I think whether it's saying, I would really prefer a handwritten card versus a card you pick up at Walmart, or it's saying something like, hey, this year for the holidays, will you only buy me what's on my wish list versus buying, giving me stuff that ultimately becomes clutter. No matter kind of what the conversation is, the thread and the theme is the same. And I think it's really like, it's setting, it's.

Natalie Tysdal (14:38.63)

this year for the holidays.

Natalie Tysdal (14:43.239)

Versus buying, you know, giving me stuff that ultimately becomes clutter. No matter kind of what the conversation is, the thread and the theme is the same. And I think it's really like, it's setting, it's bringing in some boundaries into the situation. And I think one of the best ways to invite that and make it fruitful and less awkward or less challenging is to invite the other person into it with you.

Katy (14:55.208)

bringing in some boundaries into the situation. And I think one of the best ways to invite that and make it fruitful and less awkward or less challenging is to invite the other person into it with you. And perhaps that conversation could look like similar to what we just talked about. Hey, you know what? One of my favorite memories when I was a kid was making holiday cards for my dad. That was one of his favorite things. And you know, this year it would mean a lot if

Natalie Tysdal (15:09.095)

And perhaps that conversation could look like similar to what we just talked about. Hey, you know what? One of my favorite memories when I was a kid was making holiday cards for my dad. was one of my favorite things. And, you know, this year it would mean a lot if that's something you did for me. Is that something you have the time and energy and are willing to do? And if not, how could we shift gift giving or, you know, card giving in our family? Because that is really what means the most to me. Yeah.

Katy (15:24.542)

that's something you did for me. Is that something you have the time and energy and are willing to do? And if not, how could we shift gift giving or card giving in our family? Because that is really what means the most to me. And then start there. And when we can invite them into the process versus being like, this is what I want or don't get it. Because right, we have our different love language. Like some people really love to go to Walmart maybe and pick up a card.

Natalie Tysdal (15:38.95)

and then start there. And when we can invite them into the process versus being like, this is what I want and don't get it. Because right, we have our different love language. Like some people really love to go to Walmart, maybe. Yeah. So maybe they do both, right? And it fulfills kind of both of those types of personalities. But again, I just can't stress the, I think the value of inviting them in to, you know, problem solve with you if you want to call it that. Yeah. And maybe it's a family meeting before.

Katy (15:52.263)

So maybe they do both, right? And it fulfills kind of both of those types of personalities. But again, I just can't stress the, I think the value of inviting them in. It's just problem solved with you if you want to call it that.

Natalie Tysdal (16:08.89)

gift giving and buying starts of how we're going to do this this year. Let's talk about preserving the memories. So we've just because we moved and gone through big purges recently, we've done the digital. We've kind of taken boxes and gone digital. How do you how do you advise people and I still have boxes of stuff I can't even after I digitize it, I feel like I can't get rid of it. Got boxes of tapes, they're digital and like but didn't and same thing with photos.

You just, there's some kind of, I don't know if it's guilt over throwing away these memories.

Katy (16:44.542)

So you've done the first step, which is digitizing, which can be a big game changer. Some of them. Yes, it can be expensive. However, it can be very tedious. So you have to understand your opportunity cost, your return on investment there. I would say a powerful reframe I would offer you, Natalie, and the listeners today is specifically for digital clutter, but this applies to all, is focus on curating.

Natalie Tysdal (16:45.317)

So you've done the first step, is digitizing, which can be Some of them, which can be expensive. I'd like your advice on that too. Yeah, it can be...

Natalie Tysdal (16:56.184)

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Tysdal (17:12.325)

is focused on curating and not collecting or in another

Katy (17:14.554)

and not collecting or in other words, in this case, you could say preserving, right? I think of art curators, curating art is an intricate process. It involves selecting, organizing, presenting the best of the best, right? In a way that conveys a meaningful message for the person who's walking into that art gallery. And when they're displayed together and it's like, you see the pictures and you're like, you see the story, you feel the feelings, all the things.

Natalie Tysdal (17:21.357)

I think of art curators. Curating art is an intricate process. It involves selecting, organizing, presenting the best of the best in a way that conveys a meaningful message for the person who's walking into that art gallery. And when they're displayed together and you see the pictures and you're like, you see the story, you feel the feelings, all the things. There's a big difference between curating, walking into a museum that's been curated versus just them flapping a bunch of...

Katy (17:43.624)

there's a big difference between curating, walking into a museum that's been curated versus just them slapping a bunch of artwork that they like on the walls, right? And acquiring, collecting is acquiring. And so it sounds like that's still, like even though you've digitized some of it, you still have a lot of it. It's still collected in a sense. And so that's probably why you still feel like you haven't made progress because...

Natalie Tysdal (17:50.614)

Artwork that they like on the wall, right? And acquiring, collecting is acquiring. And so it sounds like that's still like, even though you digitize some of it, you still have a lot of it. It's still collected in a sense. And so that's probably why you still feel like you haven't made progress because it's still there. Nothing like the volume hasn't changed, even though you haven't been able to get rid of some of the physical stuff that's been digitized. So you have to focus on the ones that tell the best story.

Katy (18:08.272)

it's still there. Nothing like the volume hasn't changed, even though you have been able to get rid of some of the physical stuff that's been digitized. So you have to focus on the ones that tell the best story. If this really changed everything for me from a sentimental perspective to if everything is special, then nothing really is. So think of like your best of the best playlist. Like I love the Beatles. I love Led Zeppelin, but there is something so special about popping in, at least when I was

Natalie Tysdal (18:20.421)

This really changed everything for me from a sentimental perspective to if everything is special, then nothing really is. So think of like your best of the best playlist. Like I love The Beatles, I love Led Zeppelin, but there is something so special about popping in, least when I was new CDs and I was in high school, I put in the best of playlist, right? That is a curation versus having 18 CDs and listening to one of each of Such a good example. Yeah.

Katy (18:36.526)

used CDs when I was in high school, I'd put in the best of playlist, right? That is a curation versus having 18 CDs and listening to one or two songs off of each of them, right? And you can, yes, and you can simplify and still honor the memories. I wanna share a study because this is one big thing that you're keying into here. There is something,

Natalie Tysdal (18:49.378)

Yeah, the best of the best.

Natalie Tysdal (18:56.665)

This is one big thing that you're keying into here. There's something psychologically that happens through the declutter process, whether it's digital or whatever, that kicks up a roadblock for us. It feels overwhelming. And typically it's something that comes up from something called lost aversion. And that's the fear of losing a memory tied to an object. So I digitize this thing, or if I get rid of these albums, or if I get rid of the digital clutter,

Katy (19:02.857)

psychologically that happens through the declutter process, whether it's digital or whatever, that kicks up a roadblock for us. It feels overwhelming. And typically it's something that comes up from something called loss aversion. And that's the fear of losing a memory tied to an object. So if I digitize this thing, or if I get rid of these albums, or if I get rid of the digital clutter that now I've created for myself, do I lose the objects, or do I lose the memory forever?

Natalie Tysdal (19:27.012)

created for myself. Do I lose the objects or do I lose the memory forever? In a study done, I think it was maybe a college in Pennsylvania, had people take photos holding their sentinel objects, which I know sounds silly, but they were holding a photo, sometimes a family or whomever. And they were able to let go with confidence, those photos, because they knew they had a photo of themselves with it.

Katy (19:31.793)

And a study done, I think it was maybe a college in Pennsylvania, had people take photos holding their sentimental objects, which I know sounds silly, but they were holding a photo sometimes of family or whomever. And they were able to let go with confidence those photos because they knew they had a photo of themselves with it. So it completely reduced that loss aversion fear that

Natalie Tysdal (19:56.612)

So it completely reduced that loss aversion fear that every one of us experiences as part of our humanity, right? And not only did they let go of confidence, there was no regret. And sometimes, oftentimes they never looked back at that photo. It was just knowing that it was there. That it was there. So things, are you saying like the childhood teddy bear, like can't get rid of it, but if I take a picture with it, now I can get rid of it? Wow.

Katy (20:01.178)

every one of us experiences, that's part of our humanity, right? And not only did they let go of confidence, there was no regret. And sometimes, oftentimes they never looked back at that photo. It was just knowing that it was there if they needed it.

Katy (20:20.285)

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (20:24.823)

Yeah, my husband uses that a lot where he'll say, can you get rid of this? I'm not sure. goes, let's take a picture with it. And that now can get rid of it. So it's funny. He just in this moving process, he's like, I took a picture of it. He's good. He's like, he's at the stage of like getting rid of stuff is so rewarding to him. I've gotten better for sure. But I think it's the childhood things and even my kids stuff, like getting rid of my children's, their favorite little

Katy (20:41.936)

It feels good. Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (20:54.785)

outfits from when they were babies. And they're in their twenties now. And I'm like, but maybe their kids, my husband's like, they're not going to put that on their kid. But I still, it's that memory of that cute outfit.

Katy (21:04.575)

I think it's, yeah. I think it's funny, know, when I, I have a little small keepsake bin for each of the boys where paperwork and artwork, like the best of, I'm curating it, you know, inside this keepsake box that when they're whatever, 18 or whenever they move out, who knows? I will hopefully pass on to them, right? A lot of us think on the surface level, like, I'm doing this for them. I'm creating these.

Natalie Tysdal (21:14.433)

the way paperwork and artwork like the best curating it you know inside the

Natalie Tysdal (21:25.41)

You'll give them? is. Yeah.

Katy (21:32.776)

saving these memories for them, but really it's for us if we dig a little bit deeper. It holds a special time in our lives, like when they were babies or all these different things, and it's human. But it can get tricky if we expect them to care just like in the same way we care, you know? yes.

Natalie Tysdal (21:52.124)

And it's pushing that on them. Like when they move, I think I remember that when I moved out and my mom said, here's your box or boxes. And I'm like, I don't really need those. she's like, well, we're downsizing. We don't need it. So you're almost pushing that on your kids if you give them very much because they don't necessarily want to move with all that stuff. Yeah. it's not necessarily transferring the memories because they might not.

Katy (22:15.356)

Yes, and it's not necessarily transferring the memories because they might not have a memory or care about the stuff. It's transferring the responsibility. And you know, I've had a lot of students over the years where they're

Natalie Tysdal (22:22.557)

Here you go.

Katy (22:29.456)

their mother-in-law or whomever, maybe it's their mom or dad, will just dump boxes of stuff in their house from their childhood and go, I don't want this, this is for you. But they expect them to hang onto it because they're sentimentally attached but they don't wanna keep it in their house. And I had a student who had a mother-in-law say, next time I...

come over, I'm gonna make sure you haven't gotten rid of any of this. So would you believe the amount of pressure and as someone who worked so hard to simplify her home, every time her mother-in-law came over, she brought something. So there was definitely ongoing conversations, boundary setting that needed to come into that. But we can't expect our kids or anyone, mean, I'm sure you've related to this, Natalie, you and your husband can look at the exact same item and he'll be like, chuck it, clutter, and you're like, but wait, you know?

Natalie Tysdal (22:52.705)

that's pressure. Yeah.

Natalie Tysdal (23:02.435)

So there is definitely ongoing conversation.

Natalie Tysdal (23:08.387)

but we can't expect their kids or anyone. mean, I'm sure you've related to this Natalie, you and your husband can look at the exact same item and he'll be like, chuck it, clutter it. You're like, but wait. But wait, yeah, yeah. We all have a different value lens. So being able to honor that, respect it, give everyone grace and permission. And like, here's the thing, it's okay to be sentimental. It's okay to give yourself permission to feel the feel.

Katy (23:19.866)

because we all have a different value lens. So being able to honor that, respect it, give everyone grace and permission. And like, here's the thing, it's okay to be sentimental. It's okay to give yourself permission to feel the feels. And I think especially with sentimental things or your kids' babies' items, I tend to wanna take the easiest way out. And one of the easiest ways to make progress

Natalie Tysdal (23:36.163)

And I think especially with sentimental things that your kids, baby's items, I tend to want to take the easiest way out. And one of the easiest ways to make progress through sentimental things is to let time do the heavy lifting for you. So I revisit my, have one sentimental box and I revisit it once a year to let the things do what they're supposed to do. Spark some memory, remind me of something, make me feel a certain way.

Katy (23:48.553)

through sentimental things is to let time do the heavy lifting for you. So I revisit my, I have one sentimental box and I revisit it once a year to let the things do what they're supposed to do. Spark the memory, remind me of something, make me feel a certain way, which is why we keep them anyway, right?

Natalie Tysdal (24:04.93)

which is why we keep them anyway, right? So we can experience that and I let go of four or five things out of that box once a year and there's no pressure. Of course, you know, that's through lot of, you know, internal work over the years. I didn't only always have one box, but if you have the resources and capacity to have a little extra time to go through those, it can do a lot of time, right?

Katy (24:08.476)

So we can experience that. And I let go of four or five things out of that box once a year. And it's no pressure. Of course, you know, that's through a lot of, you know, internal work over the years. I didn't only always have one box, but if you have the resources and capacity to have a little extra time to go through those, it can do a lot time, right? Just time passing can do a lot more of the heavy lifting.

Natalie Tysdal (24:35.544)

Yeah, and maybe do the picture with it and I go, okay, now I'm good. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I really think that's great advice. It gives you just that feeling of, and then maybe we talk another time about decluttering digitally because all of a sudden now you've got all these pictures and I look back and I know for a lot of people it's like, now I've got 10,000 pictures. How do I organize those? And do I?

Katy (24:40.594)

Yes.

Natalie Tysdal (25:01.58)

preserve them. And so let's save that. Let's do digital decluttering another time. We always come up with more topics, don't we? they're endless and they're so important. Yeah. Well, happy holidays to you all. I know you've gone through a lot with them, with the flooding. And I know that that probably makes you rethink, by the way, for those that don't know, Katie's was in kind of the flood zone. And that probably makes you rethink a lot of stuff too, doesn't it?

Katy (25:06.409)

Let's do it. I love it.

Katy (25:31.295)

I think what for me it's reinforced the philosophy of like, you know, our humanity when it comes to stuff.

Natalie Tysdal (25:31.487)

I think what for me it's reinforced the philosophy of like, you know, our humanity when it comes to stuff. You know, which I've always believed in and I think a lot of experts in my field really dismiss, you know, and I think it creates a lot of shame and guilt for people. in my town, same people lose their homes. It's heartbreaking to lose their stuff and not on their terms. Yeah. Like through decluttering or this intentional process, you know.

Katy (25:38.228)

you know, which I've always believed in. And I think a lot of experts in my field really dismiss, you know, and I think it, creates a lot of shame and guilt for people. But in my town, seeing people lose their homes, it's heartbreaking and lose their stuff and not on their terms, you know, like through decluttering or this intentional process. you know, it, brings, it just reinforces, you know, why I do what I do and why I teach what I teach. So yeah. Thank

Natalie Tysdal (26:01.601)

It just reinforces why I do what I do and why I teach what I teach. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, I know you're staying with your family out in Iowa and now getting ready to go back. So the best to you and all of that process and your friends and neighbors in there too. and happy holidays to you. Thanks again for your time.

Katy (26:08.002)

Thank for your kind words.

Katy (26:20.138)

Thank you. Happy holidays. Thanks.

Natalie Tysdal (26:28.768)

All right, good. Well, maybe as, you know, February.

Katy (26:31.348)

Thank you, Natalie.